Support for all who are living with estrangement

IMO your son needs to learn some respect and manners hdh, it's yours and your DH's tolerance that has enabled your door to remain open.

I'm sorry but I don't think it was your husband's place to say he would continue to invite your son to family occasions and it's your ES's decision whether or not to attend.

If this is something you're in agreement your DH should have said 'your mother and I'. I'm sure your DH handled this as best he could but it's not your son he should be wishing to be fair too, it's you.

I'm not suggesting for one moment that your DH had anything other than the best of intentions but IMO has acted in haste and not advisably.

Your DH needs to be by your side and needs to be seen to be by your side. There's a lot to be said for 'divide and conquer'; please be careful.

So glad you're doing Ok yogagirl. Thank you for your kind advice, and for yours Smileless2012
So ES sent DH an email, where he said he was angry with him and why couldn't DH have kept out of it so ES could just be angry with me . Then basically said mum could *F off etc etc, not so much angry as vitriolic. I've literally never seen anything worded with so much anger or hatred. DH decided to reply before telling me, and basically said, ES needs to learn some tolerance and accept he's loved and DH will continue to invite him for family occasions and it's up to ES if he wants to come. I suspect we may hear no more. I think DH handled it the best way he could to be fair, but I'm sure it won't be read that way.

I agree with Yogagirl hdh it's one thing for your DD to have a relationship with your ES; our DS has with his brother, but quite another matter altogether for your H to do so.

If you ES does not want a relationship with you, he can't expect to have one with his father. It was me, more than Mr. S. that our d.i.l. wanted rid of due to my close relationship with our ES.

It was discussed and agreed upon at the very beginning that we came as a pair, we are both his parents and if he didn't want both, he couldn't have just one.

He never actually articulated that he'd see his father only but reading between the lines it appeared to be a strong possibility.

I'd leave things as they are, there's no point in trying to make contact with him if he's not willing to do so. The only thing we get when we continuously bang our head's against a brick wall is a headache.

We didn't seek professional help Bekind but if you feel it may help then I'd give it a go. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Yogagirl

Good morning all and thank you very much for the sweet pms.

Smileless & Starlady thanks for your kind words.

What I mean re finally I have moved on is that I don't think of them 24/7^, I don't pray for their return or wish upon a star that I'd get a knock on the door, I've excepted they are gone. If we did reunite, it is all too late, my precious GD & GS now at an age where GP are not the centre of their little world. I loved my ED with all of my heart & soul, never did or said one word against her, or her H, quite the opposite. So now, after almost 7yrs, I can look at what my ED has done to her good kind gentle mother, sister & her little girl & I just see a very wicked rotten self- centre individual! I could never forgive her, I always said that I'd like to reconnect and start again, but now I don't think I could, she has done so much cruel damage for no reason other than to please her rotten H.

Bekind I went to mediation, did me the power of good, my councillor was lovely & kind, just wish she had advised me not to go to court. After your first session, your AC will then be invited to the next session on their own and the next you'll attend together. My AC did not accept the invitation, so that was the end of that! But it did do me good.

hdh74 I think it's despicable what your son is doing to you. To get your H to come along without you is truly cruel, he knows what he's doing there. I can understand why you & your H went along with it, but imo I think this should now stop, your H should now stand by your side united. As for contacting your S, he has shown clearly he doesn't want that, so don't, there is nothing you can do, you and your H need to step back and just wait for him to see sense. Your H going along with his cruel demands against you is not the forward.
My nasty s.i.l tried to take my whole family away from me, my eldest D stuck with me, thank God, my f.i.l that I'd know for about 40yrs and was very friendly with, meeting up for Easter, Xmas & birthdays, was taken for a year, but returned after getting the same treatment as me. They put me through Hell, the same as your son is doing to you, don't let him get away with it, the rest of your family need to be united with you. I wish you luck.

Bekind - This doesn't answer your question, but I love your name!

Have many of you who are going through estrangement sought professional help and did it help you? That's what I'm thinking of doing but wonder if it can bring any relief.

Yoga, so deeply sorry about the loss of your beloved Lilly. I'm sure she still loves you though, even if from afar.

So sorry, too, that your prayers have not been answered, and that it has damaged your faith. I hope that will change one day and your ed and her kids will come back into your life.

Dawn, I'm very sorry about the issues with dh's foo (family of origin). I'm not clear, though, on whether you and he are choosing not to attend the event or have not been invited. You talk about being "very excluded," but if you two are choosing not to go, then it seems you are the ones pushing them away and not vice versa.

Regardless, if the thought of seeing them fills you with anxiety, then I think staying away from them is a good idea. I think you have to accept that this means you won't be "part of things," might not hear about certain family news (like whose kid is graduation, or who just got engaged), etc. But, IMO, it's probably worth forfeiting those things for your peace of mind.

Hdh74 - Hugs!

After recent events I can't decide whether I should be trying to make contact again somehow or whether I should be leaving things NC. I am really struggling atm.

When some of you talk about acceptance and moving on, can I ask if any of you have done that when you are the only one NC. ES wants total NC with me, but wants contact with DD and DH, providing they never mention my name. When he was here and DH and DD were spending time with him and I was excluded I felt totally pushed out of my own family though I was glad he was seeing them. It probably sounds selfish or childish but I don't see how that would be bearable on a long-term basis, but at the same time I would never come between him and other family, so how on earth do I come to terms with that as a situation? Has anyone managed this please?

Dawn22

My husband has relatives who we don't see. We know they don't think much of us. We simply choose to live our own lives.

We do what works for us. Hubby has high-functioning autism and I am an introvert. I have a massive extended family (over 40 first cousins - seriously!) so we don't really go to extended family events.

Our focus is on making our own life and doing the things that we enjoy. If other people decide that they don't want to be part of that, or they're going to treat us badly, well, we consider that their loss, not ours.

YogagirlI'm so very sorry dear friend to hear about Lilly. In the 6+ years you and I have been posting here on GN's estrangement threads, I've known what a great comfort and source of unconditional love little Lilly has been for you.

It's lovely to see your post on yet another new thread but very sad to read your news. Take care.

Hi Dawn, it's very difficult when dealing with any family members be they your own, or your husband's/partner's. Mr. S. bless him has always felt 'on the outside' of his large immediate family and we've had more than our fair share of dramas to contend with.

We pulled out of a large family event last summer and like you, knew we were damned if we went and damned if we didn't.

We did what we believed was the right thing for us, especially for Mr. S. and IMO that's what you and your DH should do too.

The levels of stress and anxiety that just thinking about large family gatherings when all is not as it should be are bad enough, never mind enduring them when you get there.

As long as you and your DH are in agreement and are as happy with your decision as you can be not to go, then that's what you should do.

So sorry for all your sadness yogagirl - hope it's ok I sent you a pm.
Hope someone will be along who can help Dawn - thinking of you.

Hi all
I would be very grateful if you could let me know if any of you have experience of bad in law difficulties (husband's family).

There is a big family event and we are not going to it in 2 days time. Feel sad and lonely but l am trying to feel relieved instead of excluded. These are strong and tough people and try as l might l cannot toughen up in order to deal with the situation. Husband finds them very difficult too and l would be nervous and very anxious at the event and in the run up to it. Long bad history and we are very excluded

Damned if we go, anxiety. Damned if we don't, exclusion.

Would be glad to hear about any experience or advice on the above any gransnetters might have.
Very best to you all. Dawn

Morning all, such a lot of posts to read on the last and now this new thread.

I am so sorry for all the hurting hearts on here & I wish for some healing to take place for us all in some way. I would have said before I will pray for some healing from God for you all but I've stopped praying now, near on 7yrs of praying every day, quite often twice or more a day, I've stopped. Find it quite hard after all those years, I now beckon to the powers of the universe instead. Everything I have prayed for over the years, at first on my knees for a year or two, till my knees hurt too much and I was just so tired, everything I prayed for the opposite happened!

My beloved little dog Lilly, passed away on Easter Saturday She was the one reason I didn't end my life when this estrangement happened, as I knew she wouldn't want to live without me, so would mean ending her life too, and I couldn't. 15.5yrs together, just her and me for 8yrs. 10days from the start of her getting diarrheoa to passing I prayed ever day before this for God to just let her pass peacefully in her sleep, but not to be.

This month is my precious GC's birthday month, May. My precious GD will be 9yrs and GS 8yrs. Never thought I would ever say this, but finally, after all these years of pain, sorrow, heartache & grieving, finally I am able to let go

I agree Smileless2012, the topic had run its course anyway. Naturally there were some very strong feelings about such an emotive subject. I didn't feel I could offer anything helpful to granandanna as the thread ran on, so I stayed out of it.

This is a very belated and brief response to posts I wished to comment on at the time of reading.

- Way back upthread I had wanted to comment on Cherries' remarks about 'splitting' as I think that's the case with my SiL. Very useful, thank you.

- I agree with comments about being true to ourselves and to preserve our distance

- What Naheed said about us just being human, that expecting perfection is wrong. We have made mistakes and to go NC is extremely cruel and causes unimaginable pain.

- Again what Cherries reports that when a person had very positive relationships with their own GPs they should realise the damage being done to the happiness and development of our DGC by withholding our relationships with them.

- I agree so much with* smileless2012* when she writes: ‘there comes a point when you have to walk away… we have to protect ourselves, sad but true,’

I am lucky that my DD has not cut me out of her life, but my SiL has. I have now refused to accept the opinion he has of me. I’ve been through the shame of a dysfunctional family and lying to cover up why I’m not welcome in their home and have told very few people that he moves out when I arrive. I was fortunate to have a conversation with a family friend of theirs who is a GP, not their GP, but someone I have met many times over the years and he told me, ‘I don’t want you to go home thinking this is about you. It’s not. He is ill.’ That is what I carry in my head now, that my SiL can’t help being the way he is. It’s still not easy for us as a family, but it is a reason and for now that will have to suffice.

As always, great support from others which helps to focus on the positive. Thank you. x

The recent discussions were due to the posts from GranandAnna and as she left this thread a few days ago I doubt very much she's now reading this thread so perhaps we should move on.

www.stopitnow.org.uk/resources.htm

This looks like a good resource for grandparents who have some concerns relating to child abuse that have been raised and discussed here recently.

Movingon What's depressing is how some posters will support others even when their presence alone creates a toxic and hostile environment to their innocent grandchildren - who together with the victim of abuse are the only "unfortunate," case her

No-one on here has supported her stance! That is the key thing! People have tried to get her to think about why she is in the situation she is in ….which might eventually improve things for all of them. Anyway, I knoiw you are not going to look at replies, so moving on myself as well

It's depressing how quickly some posters leap on to a thread to stick the boot. Unfortunately MovingOn isn't the first to do so and probably won't be the last.

What's depressing is how some posters will support others even when their presence alone creates a toxic and hostile environment to their innocent grandchildren - who together with the victim of abuse are the only "unfortunate," case here.

* I would have thought that helping her to think things through and exploring ways she might try to right the wrongs would have been much more constructive than berating her.*

If their therapist couldn't fix it I highly doubt an online forum would. She successfully found fault in a licensed therapist (simply for both she and her husband did not like being faced with the hard truth), and decided not to further pursue this avenue.

I just hope that her daughter continues to keep those young and innocent grand babies as far away as possible from both her and her husband, as they value their family integrity over dealing with sexual abuse when it first happens. If my sibling ever raped me and a parent that I disclosed this hurtful, demeaning and shameful event to chose to sweep everything under the rug in order to maintain the "integrity," of their family, (cause according to her she'd given her whole life building it) - then I'd not only be extremely livid but would justifiably cut them off and keep my children far away from them. Not caring if you were my birth mother or not. Can you imagine her daughters plight? Betrayed by mother, father and sibling?

l was honestly still in utter shock over her overall train of thought together with those that offered her moral support - and she came across as be more upset at her abused daughter, than she seemed to be over her predatory son. Simply for her family unit was in shambles over all of this.

But I'll step out of this particular forum so as not to take away from its original intent for I believe it helps when people express themselves and talk of their hurt online. Just wasn't in support of someone who protected a son who needs to be on the registered sex offenders list - with someone probably questioning his own children on sexual abuse. OK I'm moving on. - I'll try not look at any responses to this so that I'm not tempted to respond.

Well said Smileless and longtime. Dear me Moving on!!

Very well said longtime. It's depressing how quickly some posters leap on to a thread to stick the boot. Unfortunately MovingOn isn't the first to do so and probably won't be the last.

GranandAnna has gone, I think, but I have delurked after years and joined Gransnet just to say that I am shocked by the complete lack of compassion shown to her. What a shock to hear that a much loved son had inappropriately touched a much loved daughter. That was the information she originally was told. She made a big mistake in how it was handled but how difficult it must have been to get her head round. It was wrong to try to keep the status quo and brush it under the carpet but at that time she didn't realise how serious it was. I wonder if people really would have cut off their son and called the police at that stage
Since her other daughter told her about the very serious abuse it is all becoming clearer. It would be constructive now to suggest that she writes to both daughters with a full apology and if she does hear from her son to say that he needs to tell the police the truth before she can have any contact with him.

Obviously she is not a victim in the same way as her daughters but her son has completely destroyed all her relationships, so she is a victim in that sense. I would have thought that helping her to think things through and exploring ways she might try to right the wrongs would have been much more constructive than berating her. She must be in bits and some responses were cruel.

No "MovingOn" this thread tries to support all who are living with estrangement as it clearly states in the thread's title.

It is not just to support "estranged parents hurting over their grandchildren in hopes of reconciliation". No one on this thread condoned either the son's actions or the way the family sort to deal with them.

As you have correctly pointed out Chewbacca this poster has left the thread and before doing so thanked all who had responded.

Being supported can enable someone to revisit past events, evaluate decisions taken at the time, see the mistakes that were made and hopefully be given the strength to try and right the wrongs and help all concerned to heal.

MovingOn2018 .......

GranandAnna left this thread 2 days ago and I don't think she'll be posting again. I think she was fully aware of the tide of feeling regarding her son, what he'd done and the ramifications it was causing within her family.

And the fact that some are "supporting," you as you hurt and play the imagined victim role whilst protecting your predatory son who sexually abused his two sisters, under your household is utterly disgusting. And when you say:

She said she wanted to tell everyone he was a paedohile, which as you can read above did not seem to be the case to us, we thought it was teenage misadventure

What? Are you trying to tell us that you as a parent made an informed choice to minimize incestual childhood rape as "teenage misadventure."

If this is the way some parents view things and other members of society openly supporting them for "this is a support group and the new member is hurting," then we as a society have failed. How is any of this in your grandchildrens best interest? What happened to calling a spade a spade and telling people that they were wrong and need to rectify their wrong as opposed to coddling their emotions in the name of support? How could anyone justify exposing an innocent grandchild to a grandparent that habors such a mindset? One that blames the therapist for breaking their husband simply for the therapist told them the truth? So now you both choose not to pursue therapy for you know you will be faced with some hard truths? Children need to be kept safe from people like you and your predatory son. You can't fault a parent for that, when you obviously condone a very toxic environment.

You chose not to loose contact with your sexually abusive son for you wanted to maintain a family structure that's not even there right now. How ironical is that? Things may have turned out differently had you done the right thing and turned him over. My mom always said the truth can never be hidden forever, and what's kept in the dark will always come to light. She obviously wasn't wrong. You tried to shove this in the dark, and now its come out to haunt you. I'm dismayed that your getting support for this is a "support thread," that's supposed to help estranged parents hurting over their grandchildren in hopes of reconciliation. Looks like people will support anything including those who support peadophiles which is what this was - the exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children, and NOT teenage misadventure as you've tried to minimize it.

GranandAnna

So your son sexually abused TWO of your daughters but you somehow ended up feeling like a victim? Erm - something's really wrong with you and your husband. I would immediately cut contact and keep my children far away from you both - as your younger daughter has rightfully done. Like seriously I get estrangement happens for millions of other reasons but when families try to cover up sexual abuse to protect their family name and in turn protecting the abuser - that I have a problem with. (As most of the society would).

I wouldn't leave my children for half a second in this world to visit with anyone that would want to let the "sleeping dogs lie," when it came to abuse. Such a grandparent would not be worthy of that. For what then would you teach the grandchild when they open up to you about sexual abuse? Would you quicly sweep that under the rug too? And protect the predator? And my opinion may not be the most popular one but support not only means babying estranged grandparents and/or soothing their hurt even when they harbor abusers. Support in this case means facing the hard truth as to why you/your husband didn't report your son to the relevant authorities? But you have made all this about YOU to where you now imagine yourself as the true victim.

Your post would even aggregate a nonaggressive individual. I usually read through posts on this support thread and rarely if ever comment but this post of yours is simply absurd and in this case scenario you DO deserve to be cut off. - Are you kidding me? Ugh!