Support for all who are living with estrangement

Smileless2012 yes, pain is inevitable, but remember estranging from a parent when you have tried everything to fix the relationship is painful. So it is painful all around. In my case I also considered the long term pain my mum was causing herself by hurting me the way she did. Even if she does not feel it now, she may one day. Sometimes a person hits rock bottom and sees the damage they have done. I think it may be too late by then. There is a point where either party in estrangement will have moved on and healed and won't be open to the risk of going backwards. As I think you feel yourself having read your earlier comments. We have to keep moving forwards for the people we love, who love us back.

peonyrose the problem with writing something is not being able to explain the tone of how the phrase 'do what you think is best' comes across. It was very much said in a tone that implied they thought I was an idiot and had no idea of what I was doing and I was wrong yet again. Having had years of it you learn fairly quickly what is meant by it.

Yes they have tried to get in contact, after the first couple of times I text to say I didn't want anymore contact with them and my son's wouldn't be having contact either. I'm not going to let my parents make my son's feel like they made me feel. They tried to contact me again and I replied one last time to say I've said I don't want contact with you yet you are still being controlling by still contacting me and I won't respond again. I then blocked their number.
Every now and again I get a letter but I know the handwritting so I don't open it. They know I don't want contact yet still they send letters putting what they want over the fact I don't want contact with them so this just shows nothing has changed.

Not that it's not upsetting to be told you're done with - I'm not trying to say that makes everything ok!

At least the parents who said they were through trying to mend things actually replied and let her know where she stood. It's very frustrating when the person won't explain it at all or even acknowledge they've received your messages.

No TwentyTwenty I do not stand corrected. You have not been told you should be reported to SS for teaching your D to avoid dangerous people.

You were criticized for instilling fear into your D; fear of her GP's and fear of her uncle and that wasn't on this thread, it was another you post on.

The problem for me is, your story is inconsistent and so doesn't make a lot of sense.

Yesterday a 21.29 you posted of the lengths you have gone too to resume contact with your parents. Agreeing to pay for an intermediary and getting a lawyer to ask your parents for a meeting.

You wrote about your parents "terse 1 liner" that they "are through trying to mend things, and would never get in touch with (you) again".

You are saying therefore that you have tried to heal the rift between you and your parents, the parents you have said the following about on this thread:-

You wife being referred to as "that Russian woman".

"Abused physically shoved around and assaulted in front of your wife and grown children by a mentally ill mother".

You posted "My mother is hateful, lying and calling controlling parent".

You have posted on two other threads here on GN similar criticisms and yet, yesterday posted about your attempts to repair your relationship. It makes no sense; why would anyone who has been subjected to the treatment you claim, want to pursue such an abusive relationship.

Once again you are making accusations to other posters of narcissism.

Well I still want to apologise for any upset caused by my post - it was probably ill-judged in a thread that is intended to be supportive for people on ALL sides of the estrangement. Probably nothing wrong with the post other than it would have been better in a thread specifically from a fellow gran whose ACs have estranged themselves without explanation rather than this generic one.

Good to see that you are preparing your daughter to recognise danger whether it comes from natural disasters or controlling parents or grandparents. No doubt she will do the same for children in turn......

Madgran, after my offer to meet was rejected, I was further threatened and then was considered, labeled ‘evil’ by my parents. They lied when they said they’d never contact me again. They just didn’t want to contact me in front of a 3rd party, where they could family mob me in private, away from witnesses. They are slowly learning that when anyone witnesses their violent behavior, they drive away more family, as my two grown children have also told them directly to not contact them anymore.

Myself, I don’t communicate with anyone that considers me evil, and my children wil be protected from those mentally ill people, that have further openly stated in writing their desire and intent to do harm to my parent-child relationship with my young daughter. So you’re corrrect that now, I don’t wish further contact from them, and have stated that I agree with their statements to my lawyer, and also wish no further contact as my parents have requested.

Sorry, we again will have to agree to disagree that any benefit would come from my child being around my mentally ill, violent, abusive parents.. and it will not happen.

Only harm, and even potential danger would come from my child being around my parents, and the legal authority and school leaders all agree with me, and have processes in place to arrest them if they trespass to attempt get to my child again, and ‘rescue’ her from me in my ‘un-reachable cult’. Fortunately, I live in a guarded, gated community where the guards have the legal papers, cease and desist orders and felony arrest reports; so when my dad tried to stalk me at my home, the guard told him to back out or the police would be called. So we are safe on all fronts.

Contrary to Smiles statement, I have been attempted to be shamed here in that people like me should be reported to social services for teaching my daughter to avoid dangerous people, and have answered their ignorance with my clear case, and also added that the police and principal are also upholding the same safety standards.. but no one here on the boards would answer if the police or principal should also be reporter to social services when I asked. Just ignorant silence.

We all agree that my parents and sibling are too dangerous to be around my child. So I’ll ask again, should just I, myself be reported to social services, or should also the police and school principal?

So, Smiles. You stand corrrcted, I have been attempted to be shamed here (report to social services), and for no reason, which is just another narcissist weapon of choice in their toolkit.

I say ‘attempted to be shamed’ because no narcissist has the ability to shame me. None.

This will be my last post for a while, as we’ll be making hurricane preparedness plans, and my daughter is especially gifted at making plans, organizing and making maps, so we’ll spend the day making a fun thing out of preparing for the storm.

See, even though there is something dangerous around, we know and recognize the threat, we know how to prepare, and we know 100% that we are safe and protected.

A lot of what you've posted makes sense Ou and because it does, is applicable to those at either end of the spectrum.

It is draining to have to think ahead before you say or do something. For you, in order to avoid those put downs and for many P's and GP's in the lead up to their estrangement, to try and prevent the estrangement happening.

The most important thing is that you have improved your mental health since having no contact. For me, my mental health has improved following our estrangement even though it was not something we wanted.

I took your comment as tongue in cheek ReadyMeals and responded in the same vein. A mandatory explanation would be beneficial to those of us who have never had one, or one that was based in reality.

You have not been shamed here on GN TwentyTwenty you have been disagreed with, as you have disagreed with others and have been criticized, as you have criticized others.

You have not been labelled as a narcissist. You are the one who on more than one occasion has used that offensive terminology in your responses to others. The overall tone of this thread and others you post on would be greatly improved if you desisted.

Yes LostChild it's inevitable that estrangement will cause pain. The person who is being estranged, even when their own behaviour has led to it is not always immune to that pain.

I agree with what you say about punishment. Denying GP's their GC because the P's don't want to see them is using the GC to punish. An AC refusing to communicate with their P's can also be done to punish them.

Peonyrose "Your own feeling should not override the benefit of children", yes indeed and that applies to P's and GP's.

Twenty Twenty Thanks for clarification. I knew that you had offered to pay for mediation etc as you have mentioned it previously. I was under the impression that as a result of your parents refusal of mediation etc, you now dont want any contact.

Ou812, the comment after you have made a decision and the response "well do what you think best", is I think quite reasonable, were they supposed to challenge your decision? Then you could coukd say they were controlling. It seems as if they irritated you. Have they tried to renew contact? If not it would seem you have what you want, your freedom to do your own thing.
Twenty Twenty, of course you shouldn't be forced to have contact with parents tou don't want, but it's about the grandchildren, just because you don't get on they might, grandparenting brings so much joy either side, I am sure you wouldn't want to let your children miss out because it's not in your interest. That's putting your intent first and would make you the controlling parent. In the long run children grow up and will find out for themselves, I know I would, judge for themselves. Your own feelings should not over ride the benefit of children.

Hi ReadyMeals, think about the statement, apart from this conversation “should be allowed”.

Allowed by who’s standards? Why should any reasons be given at all? Who controls and defines those ‘reasons’?

If my 30 yr old daughter said tonight,
“Dad, I need some time alone with no contact.” then I understand that she’s a grown woman, with a husband and baby on the way, and it’s her right as a grown adult to ask me not to contact her.i do not need a reason.

I don’t need to stew on what I may or may not have done, I’m not offended, she has her own family that she and her husband are in charge of. I have no place to usurp her authority over decisions made by her and her husband.

Maybe I did something wrong. Maybe she’s upset. Maybe she’s found out she’s gay and leaving her husband, and doesn’t want to involve me. Maybe it’s none of my business.

I have to say, I don’t know whom this authority is that the topic says has the right to say what ‘should be allowed’.

I think we just have to agree to disagree on the topic.

Another interesting read. I have personally never advised another person to go No Contact. Only advised that you should never ever do it to punish or cause pain, only as a last resort to protect your mental health.

Twenty-twenty that's very frustrating. Supposing I'd said that neither children nor parents should be allowed to abandon each other without good explanation to the other party? Would that have been less annoying?

I’m afraid you’ve misunderstood Madgran, 100%.

I offered to pay the expenses myself if needed to get a family lawer to act as an intermediary between our families.

I asked the lawyer on an CC email to my parents to get a doc together asking for the meeting and send to my parents.

My parents wrote the lawyer back with a terse 1 liner that said they don’t need the letter, they are through trying to mend things, and they would never get in touch with us again.

So, my parents not only walked away from me, their GC, and my 2 other grown children, but also our soon to be CG ( their GGC).

Oh, and called me ‘evil’ for good measure..

Unfortunately, some narcissist here will next attempt to shame and criticize me for this also, as has been done on these boards before.

But I have more important things to do now, it’s time to play Nintendo Switch with my daughter, whom my own mother loves less than her own pride, as shown by her actions.

I understand my comment was quite controversial. I too had problems with my parents so I of course sympathise with others who have found it necessary to distance themselves from parents. However, I am mindful that this site is called Gransnet and so I am in a mindset of focussing on the point of view of the older person when I post here. Anyway it was kind of meant to be humorous - not sure I really would like to force people to have relationships. But it would be nice if an explanation was mandatory. Many of us have had none.

the 2 incidents i posted in an earlier post were over a 5 year period and they were the only 2 that have stuck with me, i honestly don't remember any others, it's all the other 'jokey' remarks that went on for around 35 years on and off and the comments such as 'oh well you do what you think is best' about any decision i might have mentioned i was making like mine was always going to be wrong that made me decide to walk away.
It wasn't every day or every week just every now and again but it's so draining to have to be thinking 3 sentences ahead of yourself all the time so you don't say anything you'll only get moaned at about. those little comments were the thing i was always waiting for. The comment that finally did it was to do with a job change i was going to make and the 'jokey' put down i got when i mentioned it. i wouldn't put up with that from my friends so why should i put up with the constant remarks just because we are related.
so i guess to some my reasons for NC are silly/over the top or whatever else but for me now my mental health is so much better and i'm better than having to listen to them.

"It makes me wonder if the people who are NC with their children made one too many jokey remarks, which is what most abusers say .... oh I was only joking". Jokey comments are not the reason our estrangement Ou, and from what you've already posted, jokes even those in bad taste, are not the reason for yours either.

That's been my understanding too Madgran. No desire whatsoever.

*Granniesunite.

Yes it’s the deliberate cruelty that upsets me so much. So exhausting. This thread has really helped me for a long time. Thank you to all the reasonable voices. We love our family so much.

Twenty Twenty *What could we do to get my mom to reverse course and agree to contact us? It's been 2 years that I have been robbed of having the guidance of my parents, and the relationship with their GC. How can we get them to stop NC and start behaving like you believe GPs should??

How could a GP be so selfish that they choose NC over their own GC?*

Have I misunderstood? I thought from your previous posts on this thread and others, that you have no desire to have any contact with your parents?

But that is the mindset running the show here isnt it Twenty?? Folks who think that estrangement is best solved via court order and forced compliance. And yet the reasons why their children have estranged from them is SUCH a mystery

Dear Me!! Running the show! Mindsets! "Best solved by court order" "Forced compliance" ..That is NOT a summary of the posts on this thread atall!

so do you think that wanting to set up a pressure group forcing an adult child who has gone NC to reply is okay?? it doesn't even matter if it was said in a jokey manner as it still comes across as controlling.
These supposed jokey comments that can lead a person to go NC after having it constantly.
It just makes me wonder if the people who are NC with their children made one too many 'jokey' remarks, which is what most abusers say...oh i was only joking.

Forced communication is narcissistic.

Unless you are telling me it’s OK for the government to force you to also contact someone that you don’t wish to.

Spot on, OU812!

No one disputes that for some AC estranging their parents was the only option they had. Those of us who had happy and loving childhoods of course don't know what it was like to have received the opposite.

Those who have not lost a much loved and cared for AC and in many instances their GC too, don't know what it's like to be cut out of those lives.

It isn't a competition and where as we all of course can only speak of our own experience, it benefits no one to assume that all EP's and GP's are innocent or guilty or that all estranging AC are innocent or guilty.

Accusing posters whose experience and therefore their opinions differ, of being nasty and narcissistic benefits no one. These posts disrupt the thread and after a period of disruption that finally seemed to have settled down, it's a pity that they seem to be re occurring.

The mindset that you think you see running here isn't the case OutsideDave. Perhaps you should read all 31 pages of this thread.

It's good to know that you have found some comfort and support from this thread Granniesunite. "If folks really want to heal they'll do whatever it takes". Sadly for so many that isn't the case, they don't want to heal and some find ways of dishing out the cruelty to try and prevent others from doing so.