not allowed to see grand daughter

My gd was in an abusive situation up until 5yrs old. She was removed from her mothers care due to physical and emotional abuse, placed in my sons care permanently. She witnessed her mother with men as the silly mother put my gd bed in her bedroom. This was simply to stop my gd climbing on her own bedroom window sill alerting neighbours of the hours she was locked in her bedroom as her mother did this constantly, ss were alerted. We very quickly discovered my gd with her sexualised behaviour of which between us all we sought the help and counselling my gd needed of which she received for years, she is now 11yrs old and absolutely fine. I dont dispute for a minute that some of what my gs has written actually did occur. I have acknowledged this with my daughter. Each professional we have spoken to have all stated the same that when a child witnesses sexualised behaviour they may imitate this of which they all believe my gd has done. But nobody has ever come to the conclusion that my gd has actually been sexually abused herself. My daughter has concluded my husband to be the abuser purely because both myself and husband spent so much time with my gd in her younger years giving her the support she needed to get her through the bad memories of when living with her mother, and fact when my son gained custody we all lived in the same house which helped my son able to still work, myself doing the school runs, homework etc. Obviously my husband has a strong bond with my gd, but it was myself that did the caring mostly. He worked a night shift has done for years, so slept during the day, and my son was always at home in the evenings taking care of his daughter. My husband also raised 2 children, daughters, alone as his ex wife died tragically, his daughters both work for the nhs, one as a nurse, both normal women with their own families. My daughter at one point even tried to say my husband abused his own daughters. This did not go down too well with my step daughters, they were enraged to say the least. I have told my daughter I would be alone to visit my gc, in fact my husband has never visited my gc with me ever apart from xmas. He still works nights and does nothing on his time off. So how my daughter can still stick her heels in disallowing me seeing my gc is beyond me. She has never said I personally have harmed my gc in anyway, but because I'm with my husband, the man she says is some kind of abuser, then she has to keep her children safe. How safe I ask myself, from me, whom she has admitted hasnt actually harmed her children, please can someone explain what is going on here....

If elena is able to see her GD, her husband wont be having any contact; she's already made it clear that he wants no contact with his step daughter or the children.

Imitating sexual behaviour is a HUGE red flag of abuse. It does really sound like she was abused. Why did she immediately think that it was your husband? I would think in a loving and secure relationship that she would look at others with suspicion.

Maybe she feels that in your adamant defense of your husband that you aren't taking it seriously enough. You're stuck in a very difficult position.

I was abused and thanks to my parents ignoring me and not taking it seriously, it continued for years. Just because there is no evidence, doesn't mean it didn't happen. It's very hard to prove BUT your granddaughter never said he did anything?

Honestly I have no advice, it might be that she never trusts you, which is sad. If you want to try and mend it, focus less on defending your husband (I don't mean accuse him or believe he did it) but focus more on what did happen and making sure that nothing like that ever happens. If she sees you taking it seriously and taking precautions maybe then she will trust you. Maybe.

I would remove all doubt about your granddaughter being abused though. The copying behaviour just really isn't seen unless someone is abused. Kids don't naturally do that. Make sure that you don't deny that anything happened. A couple times in your posts it seemed like you thought it was a lie "my gs has only just "remembered this."" The quotation marks make me feel that you don't believe it. Make sure she understands that you aren't just denying anything happened for the sake of your husband.

And if you’re wrong Elana? If your daughter is correct in her suspicions- what then. Have you considered that at all?

Good luck elena

Thankyou Smileless2012, the support group have many heartbreaking stories of where some gp have given me some good advice. I will put up on here anything I think we can use to help us all in our fight to see our gc. I am awaiting a call from a barrister tomorrow, his number was up on gransnet. I'll let everyone know how it goes x

It was good of you to come back and give further clarification elena.

I hope you're finding the private grandparents group you've joined supportive as well as informative.

Outside Dave, the allegations made against my husband were completely made up by my daughter who made this assumption simply because my gd displayed sexual inappropriateness towards her cousin, they were both 6yrs old at the time of which my gs has only just "remembered this" he and my gd are now 11yrs old. My daughter seems to think my gd (her neice) must've been shown this behaviour by my husband, her grandad. Even though my gd was removed from her mothers care when she was 5yrs old into my sons custody, due to physical and emotional abuse and having witnessed her mother when younger having relations with different men in her life, all proven by a court of law. My daughters partner has been the catalyst in all of these allegations towards my husband who has spoken with the police and social services who have had serious words with my daughter and her partner and it has been their suggestion to me that I seek legal recourse for a visitation order to see my 3yr old gd. Therefore any advice I've given to other grandparents has indirectly come from the authorities and also from other grandparents on a private group I have joined on facebook of grandparents in similar situations as myself...just letting you know...

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elana's husband has been accused, investigated and there was no evidence so support the allegation.

Elana your husband has been accused of being a sex abuser. Why not lead with that before telling other grandparents what they should do?

Hi Sandmb, good for you going through the process of meditation and court. When a grandparent misses their grandchild so badly they will go to the ends of the earth to try to see them. For all those saying dont bother, waste of time and money, well clearly you have proved these comments wrong. Like yourself I have recently attended mediation but due to the government lockdown at present things have been put on hold. When I'm allowed to move forward I will be filing paperwork with the courts. If I lose then at least when my grandchildren grow up I can show them how hard I tried to see them. I wouldn't care if it was in a contact centre for an hour as long as I could have some kind of relationship with them. I just hope all those grandparents out there dont become discouraged reading comments of not to bother or how they didnt find success in the court room. You have to keep trying and fighting for your right to see your grandchildren...

I have been to court and mediation for access to my 5 grandchildren and won so it can be done and I would always recommend not walking away but fighting for the children to have you in their lives. I’m here if you need to talk or help

My heart goes out to you, too, Lindy. If it's any kind of comfort, you can see you're not alone. I can only hope your D's heart softens in time. Or that, as they get older, your GC will decide they would like to spend more time w/ you and seek you out on their own. xx

Unhappy, once again, I'm so sorry to hear of your situation. But I'm a little confused. If you were granted permission to see the children, how did that get reversed?

Debohoun, my deepest condolences on the loss of your DD. And how painful to "lose" your GC in another way on top of it all. My heart goes out to you! I understand your wishing you had tried for mediation, but I doubt SIL would have cooperated. I hope that, after a while, he relents and lets the kids see you, if only occasionally. xx

NannyTracey. We hardly ever see our GC despite the fact they live close by. The GP who live five minutes away from us see them regularly. My GC are aged 11 and 9 yrs in all that time they have stayed with us three times for a few hours. If we are lucky we might get to see them 5 or 6 times a year. My D has no interest in us. It's taken a long time for me to realise that sadly if I dot contact her she never bothers to contact us. It's heartbreaking when you do not know what you have done wrong, and every offer of help you give is met with a negative response. Last weekend I broke some toes, she knows, but not once has she rung to see how I am. For a long time I've felt like the only one who is treated this way, all my friends and neighbours have loving close relationsps.
I am in tears whilst I write this, but feel at the end of my tether and unable to cope anymore. It's so sad.

debohunhow can someone be so cruel, I'm so very sorry.

Sorry the above message should have been addressed to Unhappyl

Hi nannytracey,

I too have not had any contact with my two GC since their mother (my DD) died in April 2017. SIL took them to live 3 hours away from us and we have not seen them since Sept 17. We have had no contact since then. We don't know even where they live anymore. When we thought about trying for mediation we had so many people say to us don't even bother you will be wasting your money even going to Court GP have no rights. 2 years on and I wish I had tried mediation. I know I will never forgive my SIL but I miss my GCs so very much. Now I have advice to say that because I have left it so long I will have no chance in seeing them. At least you have tried, take heart that you have done everything possible to keep in contact. I am told one day our GC will seek us out themselves but they are so young and we are getting on a bit (husband quite poorly). I fear he will never see them again. Perhaps your GC will do the same. Good luck.

Thank you nonnie for your kind comments. I only joined gransnet today....and surprised so many people are going thru the same...it's good to have support..

Oh Unhappy. What a sad story. I am so sorry. I would hope the courts would be concerned about the child's 'right to family life' but I suppose they must have felt that the antagonism from the parents might have a detrimental affect on the child.

At least you know you have done all you can and maybe one day you will be able to tell him that you did want to see him and show him the court papers so he will know the truth.

nanyt others may be right that 5 months is not long enough, I don't know but suggest you get some advice because the other position is that if it goes on too long with no contact the court may feel it is in the child's best interest not to allow you to see them.

Hi nannytracey...I hope the information I give is of any use...I shall try make it brief.
You have no legal right to access to your grandchild.
However you can go to court and ask for a child arrangement order.
Forms are from your local family court..who may have a support unit who will help fill them in.
Before court u and patents are offered mediation. You and they can chose to go or not.
Safeguarding checks are carried out on the child.
Forms submitted to court are called
Permission to apply for the order. Both parties must attend court.

If permission is granted..you again go to court to discuss if you can have access.
This whole process took me 9 months....I was granted permission...but at the final heart my case was dismissed.
Everything is based on what is in the best interests of the child.
Because my son is very hostile towards me and wanted the case dismissed..it was felt my grandson would be caught in the crossfire.
I left court yesterday feeling I had wasted 9 months of my life...to be told I could not see him...but at least I can say I tried.. parents have the right to say who sees their child.
My son and his partner sat in court and lied throughout.
I hope this doesn't put u off going forward and I hope you hear from people who have been successful...it's a hard road..bit flow your heart..good luck

Agreed.

thankyou starlady after all the advise i think i should sit tight and live in hope
the last thing i want to do is make matters worse

Hi again, Tracey! Spoke to you in your other thread. I know this one may get deleted, but while it's here.... as I recall, CAB suggested mediation, but I imagine they were just throwing out there the active solutions they know of when nothing else is working. They're not thinking about the possible negative reaction you may get if you contact dd again, right now, especially about mediation or court. They're not concerned that she might refuse or come to mediation, but just say no to all compromises suggested. You can try it, of course, but I wouldn't not just yet. Too many ways it could backfire.