Denied contact with grandchildren

We have been well and truly used and taken for a ride.
I’ve been researching narcissistic adult child since seeing the video from the link here on gransnet.
What is happening follows the patterns described almost perfectly.
The relationship has been totally one sided, based on what they could get from us and use us for.
I can see this clearly now. Only wish I’d worked it out sooner
It might have saved this heartbreak.
My heart goes out to everyone else in this situation

"They stayed for 2 years,living rent free. Their second son was born whilst they lived with us and we have undertaken a large amount of child care. They moved out in January, into the barn across the yard from us but still expected regular support with childcare including the children staying with us for 2 nights whilst they attended his mother’s funeral in Durham last month."

"We can’t now see the kids as we are dangerous and can’t be trusted to be alone with them."

Sigh. It sounds as if something happened between the funeral and now. I can hardly believe it was about your going in to see the play rehearsal even if that's what set them off.

Do you have any idea what behavior they see as "dangerous?" Did either of them say at any point? Is there something you and DH can change so that they won't see you that way? If not, then I'm glad you're seeing about getting them out. It will prolong the estrangement, of course, but that seems to be happening, anyway.

Went over to talk to them as DS requested us to. Sil stands aggressively. We can’t now see the kids as we are dangerous and can’t be trusted to be alone with them. They may allow supervised contact at some unspecified date!
Good point, DS not taken in by them thank god.
Back to solicitors next week to get them out. Need to do so for our sanity I think.
Thanks for your support and kind thoughts everyone.

Good luck today Debcz hopefully this will be resolved today.

. Good luck.

Yes have seen solicitor and got legal advice.
DS coming here tomorrow. Will see what happens. Not much hope.
Thanks for the good wishes.

So sorry, Deb. It sounds as if your D is playing games and, yes, trying to get DS on her side. Poor DS! I'm so sorry!

Hey Op. hope you’re OK. Did you manage to see a solicitor? Has your son been in touch?

I’ve just watched the video on the coping with narcissistic adult children discussion here on gransnet.
Absolutely enlightening.

That's what our ES did with his brother Debcz it got so bad that at one point we thought we'd lose him too. Thank God he saw through it.

Great idea seeing the solicitor. You’re acting impeccably. She will tie herself into knots to make you look bad and then show her true colours.

From what little our son has said to us she was trying to get him on her side.
She told him she hasn’t stopped all contact. We are making it up for some reason.
I think he feels he needs to see for himself what is going on.

"I gather that as you have such a knowledge of estrangement, that you are either still estranged or possibly reconciled with your family."

Peony, the only "knowledge of estrangement" I have is what I have seen among friends or read in forums like this one. But while Ive heard/seen some common threads, I agree with you that all situations are different in some ways. Also, I agree that it must be hard to be living so close and yet be estranged. The saying "so near and yet so far" comes to mind (sigh).

It seems the situation has gone from bad to worse, Deb. I am so sorry. Hugs!

I'm also sorry D has pulled DS into this, only to refuse his suggestion of a sit-down. It is possible a sit-down wouldn't work at this time. Like agnurse, Ive heard of situations where this effort just ended up in a shouting match, etc. But why did D reach out to DS if she isn't going to take his advice? Did she just want to cry on his shoulder? Is she hoping he'll relay messages to you about how she's feeling (as he already seems to be doing) since she won't talk with you herself? That suggests to me she does want some contact, after all, if only to express her feelings. But, IMO, it's immature of her to involve a 3rd party/her brother.

Perhaps the gift was also an overture and she was hurt when it was rejected. Maybe she was trying to begin to rebuild the relationship between you two and herself before including the kids. But after the way she has been acting, how could she expect you to know that?

Still, I feel she does want to resolve the issues (whatever they may be) and resume contact. So, IMO, there's hope. But I think it is going to take a while.... Patience...

Meanwhile, I'm glad your seeing a solicitor. However, like Peony, I think you should just hear what they have to say and mull it over for a while. Please don't act in haste or anger.

As for DS, I think he should let D know he can't be in the middle of this. But that's up to him, of course.

You need to know where you stand legally to set your minds at rest. I hope things work out.

Debcz, glad you are getting the legal perspective. Hope very much you don't do anything for a time, give space for the situation to calm down a little. She has enlisted the help of her brother not you, that would surely indicate she wants to sort things out. If possible it would be better just talking to her. Sorry you are going through this. Whilst a lot of people can give well meant advice, afraid there is no easy solution to estrangement, you have to be there to understand.

So sorry Debcz for what you are going through. Nightmare. [flowers ]

I'm so sorry this is escalating to such an extent Debcz. How terrible for you and your husband. Do you still have rights over the barn, or do your daughter and son-in-law own it outright? That may make a difference on what you decide to do. Of course do get legal advice, but mull everything over very carefully before you act. There still may be a chance that this could de-escalate and be resolved in time but if you do take any sort of legal action that may make things irrevocable. So sorry, it's a difficult and sad situation.

Perhaps she's still wanting to create an appearance of peace making by involving her brother but it is unfair, although quite natural if they have a good relationship.
Using the Father's Day incident makes it look like she is all for appearances within the family because if she made the gift as a genuine loving gesture, then why would she be refusing to resolve the situation because of his refusal to accept ?
Pride is cold comfort and perhaps she didn't expect his reaction especially if this is the first time she has ever had the cold shoulder from either of you.
I hope she doesn't succeed in isolating anymore family members or causing more divisions within.

Perhaps the gift was her way of trying to repair the situation and your DH rejecting it just made matters worse? She obviously thought enough of her Dad to buy/make a present but now feels as if the barrier is impenetrable.
I'm not saying that how she is acting is right but trying to see it from her angle.

I haven't read all the posts yet. But once again I have to say people will only treat you the way you allow them to. Parents need to be assertive. Why do they think they have to take sh*t from children. Sorry for the language but I'm a bit annoyed about so many rude children. My children are not perfect either but I don't let myself be a doormat.

Sorry. Didn’t make myself clear. D involved son. We were trying hard to keep him out of it.

Debcz

Your son should not be getting involved. There should be no pressure to force a sitdown. There are two issues here.

1. It's not fair to expect another adult to mediate between the two of you. I have been in the same position as your son. It's untenable. I'd suggest you say to him, "Look, son, I appreciate what you're trying to do, but this is our issue. Please stay out of it."

2. There is, I would say, a 99.9% chance this sitdown will not go well. The sitdowns I have heard of occurring in similar situations usually ended up being a gong show. (Canadianism for a big mess.) It may actually increase the issues.

I do agree that you need to see a solicitor.

Should be can’t live like this.

Our son has now become involved and is trying to get D to sit and talk for exactly the reason you say peonyrose. It is not a viable situation.
Unfortunately at present she refuses as “we are not ready to talk” because DH refused Father’s Day gift.
To be honest we are starting to feel that they need to go, we can live like this it’s ruining our health.
We are seeing a solicitor tomorrow to see what we can do