Child arrangement court order

Absolutely

Lost child...your post made me laugh ? because in our house we always used the phrase
^ Thank God for I and thee! (But then agin I’m not so sure about thee)!!^
Roughly translated means: you and I are normal (but rethinking it, I’m not so sure you are)!
Tongue in cheek reference to the fact we all have a bit of a nutty side given the right circumstances!!!

Generally, bonkers people who know they are bonkers are my favourite kind of people lol

Yes I know what you mean! LostChild
My son says he doesn't know any 'normal' people!!

Lol normal is just not normal

Nonnie, I wouldn't like the living parent to keep the child from remembering the dead parent either. I was referring to the type of GP (or other relative) who emphasizes and idealizes the memory of the deceased parent so much that this interferes w/ a stepparent who is trying to form a relationship w/ the child, etc. Hopefully, those GPs/relatives are few and far between. But I have seen/heard of it in one or two cases.

Also, Nonnie, your story about the fake hysteria is an example, IMO, of the "fake emotions" that were mentioned in another thread.

Notanan, I get your comparison of estrangement and divorce. But I think some GPs call estrangement "abuse" only when it separates them from the GC, as well. The parents may feel they're shielding the GC from something - and they may well be in some cases - but, as I'm sure you've seen, the GPs usually just see it as something done to hurt them.

"the GP's usually just see it as something done to hurt them" and tragically sometimes they're right to see it in that way.

Before our estrangement, when ES was telling us of their understandable tiredness and need of time to themselves in his email, he also wrote 'we will never stop you from seeing .... because we know how much you love him". Just a few months later they did precisely that.

I am not sure we are placing enough emphasis on the children here, perhaps too much on the Ps and GPs? For a child to lose anyone they love for whatever reason has to be traumatic and even worse if they are cut off from one whole side of their family. As Smile says, she was told they would never cut her out and then they did, what did that do to any children concerned?

Thanks Star for reading and understanding my posts, there has been far too much not understanding others on this thread.

Fortunately, and I do mean that Nonnie we never built a relationship with our GC prior to being cut out. He was only 8 months old at the time and we hadn't had much contact.

When I read how other GP's have developed a relationship with their GC, many helping with child care, baby sitting etc sometimes for a number of years, I realize how lucky we were not have that to lose. That our GC are lucky, having never known us we'll not be missed, but there are GC missing GP's and wondering why they don't see them anymore.

Smile not that it is easy but it can't be quite so hard for you knowing that the GC doesn't miss you. You are so right that GC may wonder where GPs are or even have been told GPs don't want to see them. Whatever they have been told it must be very hard for the GC.

Agreed Nonnie of course we miss them, we miss what it would have been like to be GP's. They don't miss us but when they're older they might feel they missed out on what they didn't have the opportunity to experience.

From the perspective of someone who joined the discussion late, it looks as though the emphasis has been placed on children. It must be difficult as a GP to decide if the overall effect of going to court on the child will be positive or not. Especially when it's very seldom access is awarded and it may be a lot of upset for everyone involved for nothing.

My dad had court awarded visitation and thank goodness for me he did. I have seen all the court papers and seen all the awful things mum said about him, I would guess the court saw through her though. As they say, the truth will out. She also tried to turn me against him, not just as a child, but as an adult too. Conversely as an adult she also told me she wished her marriage had worked with him on a few occasions. I think I was used as a weapon against him and he was used as a weapon against me. My dad, to his credit, never said a bad word about her until we became estranged. He didn't know how bad things were at home and he hadn't wanted to risk damaging my relationship with my mum with their problems. Their problems should not have been my problem. Shame my mum didn't agree.

Lost your Dad sounds lovely, shame about your Mum and I think this could be a reason why some GPs do take the last step.

I personally feel that a lot of the "value" of grandparents for children comes from the multigenerational aspect!

My kids dont just go to their GPs house to see their GPs: they go to be with cousins, to see their parents with their parents. To be part of a larger whole. To witness the love between the adults in the family. To see their parents deal with the ups and downs of having aging relatives. Dealing with sicknessss and even deaths together

This is something that court ordered contact with individual GPs in isolation from the parents could never recreate

Much of the value of extended family relationships are lost when translated to being just about the GC and GP.

Even if GP's request for contact through the court is refused, it doesn't necessarily mean that it was for nothing.

Those GP's will know that they did everything they could to maintain their relationship with their GC, and when the GC are older, especially for those who up to the time of the estrangement had enjoyed the GP/GC relationship, they will know how important they were to their GP's and the lengths they went too to try and maintain that relationship.

Notanan,

Great post about multigenerational household.

Smileless,

Your last example would apply to a parent fighting for custody of the child.

A child naturally align with his/her parents.
If the child sees the parents stressed due to taken to court, the child will not associate the idea of stress = yayyy my grandma is fighting for me
Some kids might not even know the court procedure is happening, they sense the stress and tension in the house

I see a lot of projection from gp
Unless you were the primary caregiver 24/7 for years, your gc will not wonder how grandma is doing and how much gc misses you, how gc wishes to visit you more or stay for overnights
Gp is transferring his/her feelings to the child.
They are kids! They want to play, have fun, eat candy and be naughty.

Children are self centered by nature and they will not be thinking about what gm wants.
Hell, I wish kids would think what parents want (no reminders to brush teeth, take showers, do homework, etc) instead of having to fight with kids on basic hygiene and other basic responsibilities

Aligns, not align

I think from the perspective of the children, offering to go to mediation or counselling and stating that they chose not to go to court for fear of it having a negative impact on the children would be enough. In the case of parents going to court, usually that happens because one of the parents is abusive in one way, shape or form. Having an affair is in itself abusive, due to lying etc. As we know from discussion, that's not always the case for alienated GPs. There are a huge myriad of reasons why they may lose contact.

My post says "when the GC are older" Summerlove. GC grow up, they become independent adults who may decide to trace their GP's, either because they do have memories of them from childhood or because they never knew them and are curious.

There will come a time when they make decisions for themselves and when and if they do, if their GP's attempted to maintain their relationship through the courts, even though they failed, they can show that they did all the could.

Your post does not relate to mine, you are talking about children, I am not.

I can't see a response from Summerlove

My mistake, I was referring to Hithere.

To be honest, I doubt they generally do go on to trace family unless they have reason to feel unloved and unwanted by the family they are already in contact with. My brother has no interest in his own half brother because they were not in contact most of their lives. My poor stepbrother does not know this. I have an older adopted sister I haven't tried to contact because, my mum discarded her and I feel it is up to her if she wants contact or not.

Well we don't know whether or not it's general for some to trace family or whether it only happens because they "feel unloved and unwanted by the family they are already in contact with".

It happens. An old friend of our friends was contacted by her GD a few years ago and they now have regular meet ups. I'm not aware of any problems the GD has with her family, just that she wanted to get to know the GM she never knew.

Meh, I agree I shouldn't be making assumptions based on my own experience and neither should anyone else really. They may look for wider family, they may not. Whether opening up court proceedings to prove to a grandchild you did everything possible will be benificial or not in the future pales into comparison against the stress and upset it may cause now. It's an unknowable risk. Mediation and counselling, well even the courts would ask you to try at least mediation first. If you do mediation and counselling and both fail, then the assumption is that the court process will be fraught and stressful and will upset the children in some way. So the Grandparent bares some responsibility for that both now and in the future. Regardless of why they were CO surely?