Thoughts and opinions:

I agree with your posts Monica. Over sensitivity can be the legacy of a less than desirable child hood or indeed trauma experienced at any time in some one's life.

I can see how the terminology can be offensive to someone perceived as being over sensitive, whose 'over sensitivity, is due to their previous experiences and therefore IMO an understandable reaction. I was trying to think of a word that might be less offensive but words such as increased don't sound much better.

I can also relate to what you described as "over sensitivity being a ploy that is an essential part of passive aggressive behaviour", which is where I think the term 'the tyranny of sensitivity' comes from.

In the lead up to our estrangement, our ES's wife would complain that I had been cool toward her, snubbed her in the street, hung up the 'phone while she was still talking to me and on one social occasion, ignored her the entire evening and sat with my back toward her. At that time she was just 3 months pregnant with our first GC.

I know that these things were said because to begin with our ES would either tell me and on one occasion one was said in front if me and he made light of it, knowing that particular incident along with the others being out of character.

She was hurt that we didn't send her a mothers day card the first year she was a mother. I didn't know such cards were available and admit I never looked as it simply didn't occur to me to send her one.

Again there are sensitive people by character, there are sensitive people by nurture, there are sensitive people by neuro diversity, like ADHD or autism. If someone is pretending to be upset, they are Not sensitive.

People who fake emotion to abuse will generally display other abusive traits.

So don't lump sensitive people in with them.

I am not a dictator of how words are used and one word can have many meanings in many contexts and I will continue to use words in their general accepted contexts.

I do see what you mean notentirelyallhere that ‘flouncing off’ is not neutral, just like the words ‘closed minds’ are not neutral. Very few things are neutral in an imperfect world with us imperfect parents I’ve found.

I’ve learned so much from so many people on these estrangement threads about hope, forgiveness, tolerance, regrets, reconciliation and they all give me reassurance that most people are kind at heart and want the best for others. I wish everyone on these threads well x

If you don't assign the right words to the right people then expect to go through life offending people *shrug

I don't see where anyone has lumped sensitive people in with those who fake emotions LostChild or said that someone who pretends to be upset, is sensitive.

I have got to rush off for the evening but Pantglas accept and agree with you that most people do the best they can under the circs and I always feel that love is the answer a d what everyone wants and needs, we're just clumsy sometimes and edgy about being vulnerable.
Not very articulate here, happy to discuss more another day, sorry. All the best.

Well, it seems to me that even "oversensitivity," like so many other things, can be in the eye of the beholder...

Sometimes people choose estrangement because they're emotionally incapable of navigating a situation- Does that make them overly sensitive?

But isn't the problem here that sensitivity /over sensitivity etc is being talked about as though it is something 'out there', a fact that can be observed rather than an opinion or at worst, a judgment which is then used to describe an aspect of a relationship which is proving difficult.

Your description of the problems with your ES smileless sound like miscommunication and misunderstanding muddied by gossip or backchat that was unhelpful. I wonder about the body language that was going on in the various situations and I wonder if the ES had problems in her family and with her mother that meant that she was reacting to those not you Smileless. And you know, marriage counsellors say there are at least 6 people in the room, the couple themselves and the respective parents of each. We are never free of our upbringing, we can only work at understanding it. The situation you describe either needed stable, calm, constant checking out of feelings on both sides devoid of anger or if that was impossible then an attempt at maintenance of some kind of nominally warm, unblaming relationship in the hopes that this situation might improve one day.

I really don't think it helps to claim that words are being used in an accepted or general sense, that is no help at all if that is YOUR assumption but not that of the person you are attempting to communicate with.

Our ES's wife's relationship with both her parents was fraught to say the least notentirelyallthere, she went no contact with them on more than occasion, did so before she married our ES resulting in them marrying abroad with only myself and Mr. S. there, so yes, I can see what you're saying.

The disintegration of our relationship escalated very quickly once our GC was born, going from what we'd believed to be a warm and loving one to one of hostility. The result being our estrangement from our son and only GC.

IMO false accusations are not necessarily "miscommunication and misunderstanding muddied by gossip or backchat". Of course we can all be guilty of reading something sinister, for want of a better word, from time to time into the actions of others.

When it becomes increasingly frequent, and there is the distinct possibility that ongoing complaints/criticisms can and do undermine the relationship between parent and adult child, it goes beyond your own assumption.

Starlady I think your comment says a lot in few words. I also think that calling people oversensitive can spread like wildfire. In the family unit, in the workplace and even in friend groups. Then you have other people dismissing someone as just oversensitive and real problems and feelings aren't addressed.

And even worse, the result of it coming from people you love, trust or respect meaning people dismissing themselves as oversensitive and not dealing with their own feelings and problems which can result in depression and anxiety

Sounds very difficult Smileless , I wonder if post natal depression was a factor. You can only do so much, sometimes time heals but I can appreciate how things might escalate after a GC arrives. I haven't got there yet with only one of my three looking like they might reproduce! My oldest daughter has a boyfriend who doesn't do family , he's OK but we hardly see him though we see plenty of her. It's hard to know what to make of it but we don't put pressure on. Families!

We discounted post natal depression as the problems started when she found out she was pregnant notentirelyallthere. I had delayed PND after our youngest was born and it is a difficult and frightening thing to experience.

I've often wondered what that means; 'I don't do family' but as long as you see plenty of your D and he knows he's welcome that's the main thing.

I remember how bowled over with love we were the first time we saw our first GC. A wonderful moment and something for you to look forward too.

Thank you, LostChild. I think in some cases, people write someone's feelings off as "over sensitive" b/c they don't want to have to deal w/ those (often complicated) feelings. IMO, that's why it often happens in families w/ the very people we expect to care the most about our feelings, it's "too hard" for them to address, so they try to brush it all under the proverbial rug. Maybe not, just a thought.

Smileless, once again, I'm so sorry. It sounds as if something about knowing she was having a child triggered something in EDIL. One can only speculate as to what, I suppose. But it was probably related to her issues w/ her family, etc. Hormones may have been involved, too, as you say one of her accusations was made when she was 3 months pregnant. If she was feeling sensitive (dare I use that word now?) and insecure as a mum, perhaps not getting a mum's day card from you really hurt. I don't think it was fair of her to hold it against you, though, since you didn't know there were such cards and she's not your mum, anyway. But thankfully, it's in the past, and you and Mr. S. have moved forward.

What in your opinion, justifies estrangement?

Not wanting to be in a relationship with that person any more.

That's it. That is all the reason you ever need!

You don't need both party's permission to end a relationship.

If you were in a friendship with someone you realised you just didnt like, if you realised you didnt enjoy their company at all, your heart sunk if they knocked on your door or phoned, would you stay friends with them just because they hadnt abused you?

If you were unhappily married to someone who wasnt a bad person, but you were just dreadfully missmatched, would you work on ways to tolerate staying married? Because neither of you had crossed a legal or moral line in your actions?

Thank you Starlady.

I know siblings who became estranged after their parents died but not because they fell out over the will or anything, no row, no unreasonable behaviour, but their parents had really been the only thing they had in common. They didnt hate each other but they didnt like each other.

Fair enough, not everybody finds their support system within their gene pool

They were business like in their relationship. They arranged their late parents care, and later estate. But there was no warmth at all and it was somewhat uncomfortable to witness. There was never one big row or issue and neither were vindictive towards the other but they had never clicked, relationship wise. Some people don't. They each had sucessful relationships with other people.

There does not need to be a big "reason" or justification. There isnt always a villan. Some relationships fail, it doesnt have to be anyones fault or dramatic.

There can be value in stepping away from family to put your energy into the relationships that do work.

If you are always trying and trying to fit a square peg into a round hole by trying to forge a meaningful relationship with a relative who you just cant connect with in that way it can begin to take over, and affect your other, better relationships.

That applies to all relationships: trying to force a bad marraige to work, sticking with a friendship that exhausts and drains you but never nourishes you.... it has a knock on effect with the rest of your life.

Notanan

I totally agree, there doesn’t have to be a big drama, some people just don’t like one another

Notanan your comments just took a lot of tension out of me that I didn't know I was holding