*SUPPORT* for all who are living with estrangement

Yes we do happy and it's never easy, especially at this time of the year.

When we feel sad and need to grieve for what's been denied us we should do just that. Those times don't last forever, tomorrow's another day.

How good it must be to live so near the sea Smileless. I can sit and watch it for hours, it's like meditation.
This estrangement situation feels a lot like grief to me, the shock at first, then a roller coaster of desperately strong feelings. And sometimes feeling fairly calm, before being hit with another tsunami out of the blue.
I've started reading a book which is quite helpful, does anyone have recommendations that they have found helped them?

'Abandoned Parents, the devil's dilemma' by Sharon Anne Wildey available from Amazon Noregrets.

A difficult read because she doesn't hold back but when I read it, I felt as if she'd been sitting on my shoulder as she knew exactly what we were thinking, feeling and going through.

That's why estrangement is referred too as a living bereavement, we are grieving for what we have lost and for what we thought we would have, but probably never will.

Just remember that when that tsunami hits, it doesn't last for ever, that you've survived the hit and are OK. Emotionally battered and bruised, but OK.

It is lovely living by the sea, we can see it through our kitchen window and from our roof terrace. The weather here is so awful at the moment that we can't differentiate between the sea and the sky, as they're both the same grey!!

I love the sea, having grown up in a Northern seaside town.
Like you, Smileless, I could see the sea from my house. It sort of gets into your blood - everyone I know who grew up by the sea feels the same. I am not far from the coast now, although at the opposite end of the country, but might eventually be tempted back to living beside the sea. I have a long held dream of being a writer and living in a fisherman's cottage

There is something about sea and mountains which puts everything into perspective. We have a home in the French Alps, which we have had for longer than any other house, and as soon as I walk through the door, I am at home and at peace. I believe that our environment has a huge affect on our emotions and well-being.

Noregrets, I totally identify with your analogy of the tsunami, but as Smileless so wisely points out, you will survive it. I think that we are all stronger than we know and when one of us is down, there will be another to hold our head above water.

This estrangement situation feels a lot like grief to me

It is grief "Noregrets*. Grief for what you thought you had, grief for what you thought your life would be at a particular stage, grief for expectations and possibilities which you now realise may never be!

Even parents who are not estranged but who fear it and are walking on eggshells/walking a tightrope experience grief for what they realise they thought they had but haven't. For parents who are fully estranged, they don't have the eggshells bit, but they also don't have the little "compensations".

People here really do understand.

Ooh how lovely PF a home in the French alps; do you ever go there for Christmas? It must be magical this time of the year; wood fires, snow and mountains.

A fisherman's cottage, there's something romantic about that too isn't there; what would you write?

You're absolutely right about our environment affecting our emotions and well being which is why we moved here 3 years ago. TBH as much as I loved the house, it no longer felt like home and I ended up hating it.

It was such a relief when we moved here that I spent the first week in tears and poor Mr. S. thought I was crying because I was regretting our move; bless him.

They were tears of relief. Four years of pent up emotion that I'd been too afraid to give into in case it finished me off. I felt safe for the first time since our estrangement had started and at last was able to 'let it go'.

The last paragraph of your post really resonated with me Madgran. Despite what we've lost we are truly thankful that we don't have to walk on egg shells and live in fear, wondering if the next time we saw our GC it would be the last time.

Fear of the unknown and what might be is an awful thing to have to live with.

It's so heartwarming to hear of people overcoming such horrendous and damaging relationships, and not only surviving but thriving. Emotional abuse, especially as a child, just destroys self esteem. I didn't even feel liked by my mother, never mind loved. I got away from her by having a baby when I was 18, only to find myself going through years of abuse from my first husband. Somehow, I found the determination to make my life more fulfilling. Turning 30, with three children all at school, seemed to give me a shove!

Like Starblaze, I lost weight, went back into education and got a job which paid enough to give me independence. I do still have that vulnerable core of course, that has never changed, and it needs protecting and nourishing. Its hard to love ourselves when we have felt not only unloved but unlovable. So not only surviving but thriving is one heck of an achievement.

Bloominheckaslike! Sorry, I meant to post that on another thread!

A little good news. The children have been allowed to see their maternal Grandad and seemed OK. So I feel a little less anxious. And breathe.

Noregrets, so sorry to hear that you did not feel loved as a child, but congratulations on making such a success of your life. Your children not only love you but they will be very proud of you - what a wonderful example for them to follow.

Smileless, we have been to the house at Christmas, but mostly we prefer to celebrate it at home here. I don't know what I would write, I am pondering at the moment, as I need a new challenge. I am so pleased that the move to the seaside has worked out well for you. I expect you see some wonderful sunrises and sunsets!

Had a deja vue moment then noregrets because I've just read your post on the other thread.

Yes we do PF both can be fabulous, some of the best we've ever seen.

The grief really does hit in waves when you don't expect it. Then somehow you get on an even keel again for a while.

Glad you had a bit of good news noregrets

I love being at the sea too. Wanted to go in winter to try and see if there were any seals about but I'm sticking close to home atm as I have an incomplete PVD in my good eye so might need a hosptial quickly. Still, don't mind staying close to home in winter.

DHs brother is coming for a visit today. Have a good day all. xxx

Have a lovely time with your b.i.l. hugs xx

It is as said so often now, a 'living bereavement,' and you do go through the 7 stages of grief, you are mourning for someone who is still alive.
Shock and denial
Pain and guilt
Anger
Depression
Upward turn
Rebuilding
Acceptance and Hope.

Remember that time will pass, accept that some days you will feel devastated, allow those feelings of despair safe in the knowledge that tomorrow is a new day.
Never think you are alone, there are estimated 2 million grandparents feeling exactly the same way as you.

Thanks for sharing that Minty, it's made me see how far we've come. We're at number 7 now; we have the acceptance but not the hope but that's OK because we've accepted there is no hope, which is why as PF suggested we're finding this Christmas particularly hard.

Well we were, we feel much better about it now.

What better way to start the day than with a good laugh. Thanks to Mr. S. that's what we've done this morning.

His sister sent him a photo to his 'phone of their 90 year old mum holding her latest GGC who is just a few weeks old.

He thought he'd copied it, but by mistake he sent it to his local bird watching club. Two comments followed; the first was "looks like we have a new member" and the second was "yes, but which one".

LOL, Smileless!

I know Starlady but a bit worrying as after all, he's my 'go to guy' for all things technical. I had to get him to take the pic of our reindeer and post it here on GN!!

NoregretsHow wonderful that you were strong enough to take the negative and make your life positive. I try to think of the person who emotionally abuses others as handicapped in their abilities to look inward and see what the real issue is rather than taking it out on others.
Well after thinking about “ living bereavement” I decided that’s what is happening to me. But why am I still, after almost five years with one child and two with another, still stuck on anger and depression? I have done nothing but cry on and off all week. Next week both estranged boys birthdays and the anniversary of my fathers death on the same day. It’s a lot for us.
I wish I could live by the sea, lake etc but we have a pond and a waterfall that we built so that will have to do. Unfortunately it’s frozen now.
“Smileless*In the states when we were teens there were Snowball dances. You would dance with someone and then the music would stop, someone would yell out “Snowball” and you switched partners and continued dancing until Snowball was calked again. I actually had to look it up to see what everyone was talking about.

You have so much to contend with Rhinestone; your mum's health problems, your son's issues and your DH's son your step son estranging you both and you are unable to see the GC.

So close to Christmas you've the anniversary of your dad's death and both estranged son's birthdays to get through; no wonder you've done nothing but cry on and off all week.

There's no rule book, nothing that determines for how long we should cry for and feel depressed about our estrangements so please don't be hard on yourself.

The Snowball dances sound as if they were fun; no wonder you didn't have a clue what we were talking about! Try the drink you might like that too.

Busy weekend ahead. B.i.l. and s.i.l. coming to stay tonight and tomorrow is our church's carol service. Mr. S. is leading and I'm singing in the ladies choir.

What are you lovely ladies getting up too?

Off to Tallin until Tuesday! ? Wanted to go for years and really looking forward to it. Enjoy your visitors and your Carol service Smiless

Have a great time Madgran

Have a good time w/ BIL and SIL and your Carol Service, Smileless!

Have a good trip, Madgran!

As for DH and me, we've finished our Xmas shopping and decorating are busy wrapping gifts. These days, we like to get them all wrapped and ready well in advance, so we can relax the few days before Xmas.

Have a lovely service Smileless - music is, for me, one of the most beautiful and special parts of Christmas.

We are more 'ahead of the game' than usual, so took time out and went to the cinema to see 'Knives Out' with Daniel Craig, which we really enjoyed.

Still waiting on DGD2, who is now nearly two weeks late!

Have a peaceful weekend everybody. X

Have a good time with your BIL and SIL and enjoy your Carol Service Smileless!

Have a good trip, Madgran

Bit more Christmas decorating today and a few small DIY jobs. Left out a box of decs for DH to do last, when he fnishes work on Monday night - that will help him start feeling festive.

Still waiting with you PF - it must be very soon now!

DDs closest friend is expecting her first baby and is a couple of days late, we're waiting for this little one too.

Best of luck to DD and her coming baby, Petit!

Happy Holidays, everyone!