Narcissistic personality disorder

There is no title/word that can be used to describe the behavior of parents that end up estranged. If the word 'Narcissistic' is used, it is thrown off, "because it can only be diagnosed by a professional". Which I happen to believe is untrue. If I see someone with an arm bent in a place that doesn't have a joint and the person is in extreme discomfort, I may not be a Doctor, but I will say, "It looks like you have a broken arm."

If the word 'Toxic' is used, it's just plain "cruel" and what does "being toxic" even mean?

If the word 'Abusive' is used? Who is a child to decide if they were abused...

So I will throw out the word 'Clueless' as a possible choice.

In my experience, the parents who end up estranged are 'clueless' as to how their behavior affects those around them. Whether they are "willfully clueless" is a matter of debate.

www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/matter-personality/201411/parents-cut-adult-children-clueless

It baffles me that some here who claim to be warm, loving parents not responsible for any issues in their ACs lives work so hard to discredit other AC. Smear campaignes, false accusation, projection etc.

If it isn't a problem with the terminology, perhaps because they use those themselves, then it's something else.

Not that I mean that of all EPs, some seem consistently kind and supportive. Sad that those people are more likely to listen to and have their opinions coloured by other EPs... Not that I don't understand that.

It baffles me that some here who claim to be warm, loving parents not responsible for any issues in their ACs lives work so hard to discredit other AC. Smear campaignes, false accusation, projection etc.

Has that happened on this thread Starblaze?

I don't know Madgran, I just happened to read the comment before mine but I've seen it happen in this forum and others and I find it very difficult.

Hopefully I don't need to add the disclaimer that I am talking from an AC perspective

It’s the latest buzzword everyone is now narcissistic just like anyone with an ounce of compassion is now a snowflake
Unfortunately because it is used so freely it undermines the dangers of a real narcissistic personality

Hopefully I don't need to add the disclaimer that I am talking from an AC perspective

I realised that, as I have read your perspective in various threads. I wasn't asking the question from any perspective, just wondered if your post related to any posts on this thread

I'm starting to feel like I just have nothing to prove any more. I am starting to know who I am. Basically a decent human most of the time. Is it even a perspective really? Is that the right word? I have been through some really awful things and they have previously changed me in many ways. I am still in the process of changing myself and undoing that damage from several different kinds of abuse. If using labels helps me express that then that's what helps. I consider where we are, labels aren't likely to get thrown around without meaning in estrangement threads like they do in the wider world.

I may have finished last nights wine.

Madgran -- What does it matter which thread comments were made on? Are you suggesting that if nothing like that was said on this thread that nothing like that has ever been said?

I was asked to cite an example of a certain behavior and I did. However, what I quoted was ignored/twisted and then promptly 'gas-lighted'.

Starblaze -- There is a cognitive distortionamonga lot of EP's. They confuse everyday reality with one they substitute themselves.

It's like the article I just linked. I don't know if they KNOW they are doing it. Much like old anti-vaxer arguments. "Vaccines are dangerous because I believe they are." Their 'belief' that vaccines are dangerous doesn't make that a REALITY.

EP's believe what they FEEL. So if they felt, "Our estrangement is caused by vaccines." then that is their reality. Even when someone else suggests that might not be the reason, unless you agree with their 'belief', YOU are "wrong" and THEY stop listening.

And when I say, "stop listening", I mean not just on the subject of estrangement, but on anything/everything. Once you have been designated as a 'lesser' there is nothing you can say or do to elevate your status. This is the mentality that leads to estrangement. Children (even though now ADULTS) are still in the 'lesser' role. They can have children of their own or even grands of their own, they are always 'lesser' to their parent. But that's not how the world works.

Children grow up and become adults in their own right. Often the parents want to/continue to see them as 'helpless children' that never make the 'right' choices. It's a perception issue. We believed that perception for so long and they knew it, because as Missfoodlove said, "As a child and young adult I believed everything she told me." and since she believed and I believed how "bad" I was... THAT became 'reality'.

Now my reality has been replaced with truth and she still sees Me as the "bad". It's a gulf that cannot be bridged. I am not the 'horrible person' she views Me as and I no longer feel horrible about myself. So I could no long handle her horrible treatment of me because I knew I didn't deserve it.

HolyHannah, I found that comment extremely comforting. I think the last thing I wanted when I came here was to be seen as a horrible person and it happened anyway.

Now I think oh well, at least I'm horrible in good company lol

Madgran -- What does it matter which thread comments were made on? Are you suggesting that if nothing like that was said on this thread that nothing like that has ever been said?

Holy Hannah All I asked was if Starblaze was saying that that had happened on this thread. I couldn't particularly see it in the comments I had read and wondered if she and I were reading them differently. That is all; I wasn't suggesting anything at all, it was just a question to Starblaze

A vaccination would be great Fennel.

It's a shame that there appears to be such a one dimensional view when it comes to NPD. Always the parent and never the AC or the partner of the AC whose NPD manipulates and distorts their reality.

Not that it matters in the scheme of things. We know the parents that we were and are so the refusal of some to see us as we are, and not what suits their agenda is of no importance.

Madgran -- Thanks for clarifying. I agree with you. Thankfully on this thread that has been avoided.

Starblaze I wasn't suggesting you were horrible. I just wanted to know if you were reading it differently to me.

Madgran, stop worrying, not everything I say is aimed at you, I'm mostly just thinking aloud, while still adding to the topic. As I said labels aren't likely to get thrown around without meaning in the estrangement threads. By anyone. Unless it's one person projecting their own issues onto another which is a shame.

I wasnt worrying Starblaze, just clarifying

Madgran, do you have a problem with me? You pull me up all the time and take everything I say very personally and it's odd

Can't believe there is yet another thread on this bloody narccisistic personality disorder thing.

Starblaze No I dont have a problem with you. I wasnt aware I had "pulled you up" on anything. I was just clarifying that I wasn't suggesting you were horrible in case you thought I was as you made the comment straight after mine.

Your posts sometimes directly follow mine and I sometimes think they might relate to what I have said and therefore sometimes think there is a misunderstanding! If I do, I prefer to clarify rather than end up in some daft tit for tat argument that seems so prevalent on threads at the moment. It is a shame when threads get derailed, isn't it.

Yes it is madgran, I have previously said I have no ill feeling towards you and you can just assume such. I think it would make life a little easier for us both.

Perhaps I have missed you doing the same with others commenting near you but it feels rather personal at this point. I know you are probably going to say it isn't personal but that doesn't change how I feel so if it could just stop I'd apprciate it.

I only clarify if I think a comment might be connected to my own and there might have been a misunderstanding. I cannot promise not to ask a question if I am interested in something you say Starblaze but will keep in mind your feeling; no desire to make anyone feel uncomfortable.

OK Madgran x

I'm really not up to speed with this narccisistic personality disorder thing and don't really understand or know much about it. Is it when someone thinks everything revolves around them?

Or is it more complicated than that? It seems to be a topic that is under discussion more and more these days and I wonder if it's a new thing or whether it's something that has been around for years and has just been given a new name?