AEC thread. Feel free to chat or add helpful resources here.

Superb

It's so good to see that churches of all denominations are becoming so much more in the community isn't it Nanastrawberry? Used to be that the church was an unreachable, closed community but, certainly around here, that's changed very much.

I've been thinking a lot lately about how I feel when my AC move out. It seems really alien to me that my mum would chuck me out without a second thought and not feel any of this.

I suppose things were a bit different back then but I can't imagine ever just chucking a child out. I don't remember being that bad, certainly no different to my kids. I was just technically an adult, working, going to college, constantly growing up, doing well.

I seriously need to be back to work properly and stop overthinking everything.

I also really do need to remember that abusive people do abusive things and they don't care about your feelings. They do it on purpose. There's no point trying to explain or comparing myself to my mum in terms of how mum's should feel towards their children.

My parents were completely different. They kept their claws in. I wasn't allowed to move out until I was married

I would never kick my kids out. I will encourage and help them to move out.

We had friends several years ago who felt they had no choice but to turn out their eldest son. He was a drug addict and a dealer. Stole from them and his younger siblings to feed his habit.

Very sad, but they had 3 younger children who were being badly affected by his angry and at times aggressive out bursts. We lost contact with them some time ago so I have no idea what happened to their son or if if he ever returned to his family.

Ironflower both alien to me and awful, although part of me would love to keep mine all here forever, that's not what we do. I just have to keep my concerns to myself (or to my fellow ECs) and just support them if they need it.

There is a definite balance between not allowing your children their own autonomy and just chucking them out on the street after you have neglected them so badly they barely survive. I almost didn't after a suicide attempt. I had to give up my college course where I was getting high marks and leave my part time job I was happy in to find a full time one. I ended up in a refuge after an abusive relationship and my mum told me not to tell anyone because of how shameful that was for her.

How did I ever think that was normal?

Starblaze -- "How did I ever think that was normal?"

That's part of where we blame ourselves. Their behavior becomes so unhealthy looking when recovery begins and our own unhealthy takes focus because all of a sudden you realize you are reacting to your environment the best way you know and with no real support.

It's amazing how abusers keep their victims in constant turmoil. There is no consistency. Rules keep changing and there's one set for 'good'/betters and then there's a set for you.

It's not a wonder abuse victims end up with a whole host of issues and often turn to drugs/alcohol to self-medicate. Of course this doesn't help and gives abusers more ammunition with which to attack you, which leads to more depression/anxiety which often fuels the addiction issues.

Everything and everyone is unhealthy in the dynamic, but the only one being scrutinized/held to account/has their bad behavior high-lighted is the Scapegoat.

For my 'mom' it was easier to just say, "Hannah is just plain bad." then accept, "I am abusing this child and her reactions are 'normal'. Maybe if I didn't do xxxxx or if I was encouraging instead of just highlighting all her flaws maybe we would be closer/have a better relationship."

Alas, that would call for self-reflection. Abusers never do that any more then apologize. They have done nothing 'wrong' and therefore no apology is required.

On another thread a mom talked to her daughter about an incident that she felt bad about as a parent. Her daughters reaction was priceless. "‘if you had done that mum, I probably deserved it for being a little sh*t because let’s face it, you were always so loving and sweet’."

Certainly NOT the answer of an abused child and I felt bad for the mom thinking she was 'bad' for the admission. I thought it was brave and the fact that she could apologize was beautiful.

My 'mom' on the other hand can't think of a single thing she did that might have been 'wrong'. Not one. And let's be honest, if she did accept and apologize for 'one thing', that would open the door for her having to accept the hundreds of things she did 'wrong'. Never. Gonna. Happen.

That's one reason Holyhannah I sort of hope there is an after life and people do get held accountable for the wrongs they didn't hold themselves accountable for in life

Starblaze -- It's one of the things I like about being a Jedi. The implication that We somehow continue an existence of energy in the universe brings me peace.

Certainly the Christian perspective on the afterlife is interesting, although from my understanding of the faith, there are some people who call themselves such that if the universe/God was 'just' He'd look at abusers and say, "You don't need My forgiveness to get into heaven, you didn't wrong Me. Get forgiveness from those you have 'wronged' and then We'll talk heaven. Otherwise?..." points to the line for the bus to Hell

Your understanding of Christianity is flawed. Christians believe that they need to truly repent and ask God for His forgiveness as all humanity is flawed. This is irrespective of whether forgiveness has been received from someone we have 'sinned' against.

It is obviously not always possible to ask for forgiveness from someone you have wronged; they may have died, they may refuse any contact with you. They may be unable to forgive you for what you have done.

God doesn't tell those who believe in Him "then We'll talk heaven". It is through His grace that we are forgiven.

Jeremiah chapter 17 v 9 "The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?" We can deceive ourselves and we can deceive others but God knows what is in our hearts. He knows when we truly repent and forgives us.

Abusers are not the only ones who sin.

I need to look more into what it means to be a Jedi Holyhannah

Have you got any good resources?

www.templeofthejediorder.org/doctrine-of-the-order

This tends to be the most universally accepted and I find most concise summation.

Thank you, I will give it a read

Starblaze -- #15. Jedi believe in eternal life through the Force. We do not become obsessed in mourning those who pass. We may grieve at their passing but we are content, knowing that they will forever be a part of the Force and so always a part of us.

You can also google templeofthejediorder.org for information; just had a look and it quotes all of the 21 Jedi maxims.

Holyhannah I've always been an agnostic, I've always thought there was something and I've always thought that energy is eternal.

That describes something to me perfectly

It seems really alien to me that my mum would chuck me out without a second thought and not feel any of this.I suppose things were a bit different back then but I can't imagine ever just chucking a child out

It feels alien to me too Starblaze. I am not sure how long ago that happened to you but I don't think "things" were that different for parents in terms of that "child leaving home". I remember so clearly my feelings when my kids grew up and flew the nest ...exciting for them, scary and also exciting and satisfying for me watching them take those wings and fly. I smiled the other day when you referred to "flapping about" your son who is off to uni ...I know I had to control the flapping about, which I did!!

Starblaze -- I find much peace in the faith that's for sure.

It helps when you hear things like the latest...

According to a group of EP's:

"my children are both diagnosed with bi-polar disorders, personality disorders, and a slew of other questionable labels from councelors, which I take with a grain of salt." -- I wonder where they got 'those' from? Abuse maybe? But wait...

"Any adult that chooses to throw their caring parents away is disabled by definition—DIS (meaning NOT) able. Any rational adult could not expect perfection in another human being, without holding themselves to the same standard. Any adult who actually thinks they are without fault is dillusional. Hence, not (dis) able to think clearly." -- There's the "perfection" word again. She is correct... "Any rational adult could not expect perfection in another human being" and yet their expectation is that you will be a 'perfect child' because they believe they are a "perfect parent". When you are not "perfect", like a normal child, that is an affront to that 'false self' so then anything they heap on you is because you deserve it for NOT being "perfect". Also the projection of "they expected us to be 'perfect' parents". Find Me the EAC of abuse who is asking/has ever asked for that?

"the inability to receive or give love to people who have given you birth, and other immediate family members, is a disability in and of itself. In my way of thinking it makes no difference whether the party realizes the hurt they are causing or not. The results are the same—devistation to others. Rather than the mental health professionals listing this as an add on symptom to other mental health issues, it deserves its own label and intense treatment." -- I am floored again the mentality!

"Rather, what is happening for the most part is, it is being ignored as anything wrong or hurtful to completely ignore, or viciously attack the people who have given them birth." -- So I guess she's saying if you walk away You = bad. And if you stay and try to stand up for yourself/'viciously attack' them, You = bad. Yet when I say EP's using the "damned if I do/damned if I don't" line are projecting. THAT is the situation they put their victim(s) in. Unless you go for option 'C' which is pretending everything is 'normal' and be a good little Scapegoat again. Since 'C' ceases to be an option when people get healthier No Contact is the only way to avoid the other two because of the drama creator.

"The worst part is that it is being encouraged, as the people who have never even met such parents are labeled toxic, and the patient is encouraged to stay completely away, leaving all concerned with zero support system." -- Actually, NO, this does not leave everyone with 'zero support system'. I ended up with healthy support/REAL support. How they are 'left' is without their punching bag. Poor them.

"Being o.k. with cutting all ties with blood relation for no valid reason is a disability (my veiwpoint) ." -- And again, THEY are the deciders of what = "valid"/justifiable. That shows all the dysfunction you need to know. AC get to decide what is "valid" and it doesn't matter what EAC say is their reason, to EP's -- The reason is never 'good enough'. Good thing it's not their call.

I love how doing "nothing" is comparable to/rises to real abuse -- you know the kind that both parties have to present for. I have yet to be hit by someone who isn't in the same room as me...

www.rejectedparents.net/forums/topic/disabled/

They've yet to determine the exact "cause" of bipolar, but do attribute it to a variety of factors and underlying conditions- Definitely nothing to "take with a grain of salt" or "define" individuals suffering from it by their symptoms-

I know bipolar takes a toll on relationships but it doesn't end relationships- Lack of support and/or refusing to seek help can end relationships- I would encourage any parent to seek help themselves if they've children with bipolar- Because without learning how to navigate a bipolar relationship, they themselves are in a sense "disabled"- Which can eventually lead to estrangement-

my children are both diagnosed with bi-polar disorders, personality disorders, and a slew of other questionable labels from councelors, which I take with a grain of salt

That is just a silly thing to say!!

...that last comment might read as dismissive, that was not the intention. "Ridiculous" would have been a better description than "silly"!

That is just a silly thing to say!!

No Madgran I think you were right first time. And rosecarmel is absolutely correct. To even try to connect the disorder of being bipolar to parental abuse is, at best ignorant and ill informed and I would suggest that more investigative research is carried out before making any more outlandish, and frankly ill conceived statements. Some of the assertions regarding parental abuse and it's consequences are frankly becoming quite ridiculous and for those members of GN who either suffer from bi polar themselves or have a family member or loved one with the condition, they must be dreadfully hurt by it being connected to abuse. Please reconsider your post HolyHannah; there are no polar sufferers who could be very hurt and offended by your post.

Many problems are now known to have links to abuse but even when they don't, the lack of support or care that generally comes from abusive parents can make them so much harder to cope with for those individuals.

I would guess that it would be easier to deny diagnosed "labels" exist for abusive parents rather than acknowledge playing any part in their appearance or the fact that they were diagnosed late in life after causing untold problems for the sufferer.

My treated anxiety disorder has its origins in my upbringing as verified by professionals. My mum would just tell me I am ridiculous, I should just stop overthinking, that I need to just get over it.... Prevented me from seeking help for a long time. Help that actually helped me a great deal and could have made my life much more comfortable much sooner.

journalbipolardisorders.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s40345-015-0042-0

In any case where a child says they have experienced abuse that link is prevalent in the treatment plan.