AEC thread. Feel free to chat or add helpful resources here.

Some of the assertions regarding parental abuse and its consequences are frankly becoming quite ridiculous.

I completely agree Chewbacca. Endless posts about what some EP's supposedly say and/or do with the posters who make them putting their own emphasis and interpretation to further their own agenda.

There is a lot to be said for sharing our own personal experiences. That can help those with similar experiences and seeing how someone else has been able to move forward and rebuild their lives, gives hope.

What continues to fascinate me is how often the EP's who post on GN, have their 'truth' invalidated and even not believed especially if it goes against what EAC have experienced, and yet we are supposed to take on board without question post after post giving the very worse examples of what some EP's have done that's resulted in them being estranged.

There are bi polar sufferers who could be very hurt and offended by your post. I'm sorry to say that doesn't seem to matter any more than EP's in general being hurt and offended by some of the posts we see here on GN.

'Do as I say an not as I do' often springs to mind.

In every case, "cause" has yet to be determined-

The intent of my previous comment is for the purpose of clarity, not cause for argument- And encouragement to seek support rather than dismiss diagnosis or "labels" provided by professionals-

Not that they can't make assessment mistakes- But one would need to investigate to make such a determination- On the other hand, "defending" a mistaken assessment isn't helpful either- It's actually an unhealthy pattern-

Starblaze -- As usual I didn't use 'correct language'.

Even if things like Bi-Polar disorder are not caused by abuse as you say, abuse towards those with that type of condition certainly won't help. Denial/dismissal from the 'parent' is not "help".

Refusing to accept and modify behaviors to assist with those conditions is also 'non-help'. Just like my Autism. I have learned to manage that condition but I won't be in the presence of people who pick at my Autism to gain a reaction. That's part of the abuse I suffered.

So not believing/dismissing my Autism means anything they did that exacerbated that condition just became Me over-reacting etc.

To accept some of these conditions might mean the 'parent' might have to do 'parenty' type things like, be supportive or modify behavior(s) so as not to trigger out-bursts and accept that their behavior can/does affect the reaction/response they get.

Alas, some won't accept any of that and would rather carry on as usual which of course is their 'right'. However, when one exercises their 'right' to not accept a child's challenges regardless of age, they must also accept that not accepting and respecting those things may come at a cost.

How could I learn to deal with/manage my Autism if the people around me insisted on treating me like I am 'normal'? I could not and that made everything worse.

At what stage do any of us become responsible for ourselves, for our behaviour, rather than continuing to put responsibility for any difficulties on to others, often parents.
I do not seek to minimise the impact of any form of abuse on children, on the development of personality and the ability to form and sustain good relationships.
Child abuse is depressingly common, it always has been and it seems levels may be increasing. Dependence on/abuse of substances like drugs and alcohol means increasing numbers of parents aren't consistently emotionally or physically/practically available to their children.
Some children survive that kind of childhood without repeating the patterns. Others appear to lack the resilience to move into adult life without significant psychological or psychiatric difficulties. What contributes to that when life experiences have been so similar.
One woman I know had horrific childhood experiences. She was abandoned by her mother on multiple occasions, found herself in dangerous families or in some form of care placement. Despite horrific experiences I won't detail, that woman brought her own children up well. She lives a good life. She re-built a relationship with her birth mother. Talks of understanding her mother's difficulties and is involved in caring for her. Where did her resilience come from?

Iam64 you'd have to read the whole thread to see a lot of what has already been said regarding that but, knowing where issues I have originate is not the same as blaming my current behaviour on my mum. I don't blame any of my behaviour on my mum, even times I was very anxious or depressed. I take full responsibility for my own actions.

I'd say I got a lot of resilience from the healthy relationship with my dad, personally.

I have nothing but respect for people who are able to manage a relationship with difficult parents. It just wasn't the right choice for me.

I think resilience has many wellsprings and can be obtained from infinite circumstances and situataions- Accountability is one source that fosters resilience- Difficult as it may be for anyone to admit a mistake has been made, it's healthy behavior -- opposed to defending, deflecting and avoiding that a mistake was made-

Admitting mistakes is definitely much more difficult for certain individuals with psychiatric conditions, which should be recognized and taken into account and consideration when communicating all while not allowing the use of deflecting, defending and avoidance in the conversation -- in other words, make efforts to strike a balance-

The woman you referred too in the last paragraph of your post is a wonderful example of what can be achieved Iam. A life rebuilt despite the most terrible of beginnings.

It just seems to be an utter waste of what a life could be. If only the constant looking back at the past could be put where it deserves to be; behind you. And to be able to use all those negative experiences as a force to propel your lives forward to a happier, calmer and more peaceful place. Only you can do it; no one else has the tools to assist you in finding peace and happiness; you hold them all; if only you would use them.

I don't believe in all those silly sayings like "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger".... Stranger maybe.

Everyone is on the path to healing and I don't expect them all to be in the same place or constantly progressing. The human mind is a complex thing.

However, here is something I know for my friends.

I'm a hell of a lot stronger than my mum. I'm happier, I'm healthier, I have better relationships with people....

That woman did everything she could to sabotage/destroy me and ultimately....

I won anyway.

There is pretty much nothing else that she or anyone else can throw at me that I won't find a way to overcome.

I'll always win.

You’re right Chewbacca - I’m a firm believer in looking forwards not backwards.

None of us can change the past and a hard lesson learned can stand in good stead for a brighter future of our own making.

Those that do not embrace their history are doomed to repeat it...

If I denied my history it would also be easy to repeat it.

That does not mean my history is all I think about but it certainly impacts what I do 'in the now' so that I hopefully won't have the same regrets/unhappiness later like my 'mom'.

Starblaze -- I find the assumption that we are unhappy in some way fascinating. Is the thought that therapy and recovery "works" a foreign concept?

People claim to find 'inner peace' from practicing their faith and yet I have not? I know what I believe and how I feel inside.

"I'm a hell of a lot stronger than my mum. I'm happier, I'm healthier, I have better relationships with people...." -- This x1000. Just not ones that demonstrate unhealthy tendencies.

I am honestly pretty happy Holyhannah.. Estranging late in life, I had no idea how much better things could get... Still are getting. Its just important to me to make sure I am not passing anything down to my children. The cycle has to stop here.

I had a really crappy day today, lots of problems I didn't cause and issues I had to address and dealing with cross people who didn't need to know i wasn't responsible, they needed to know I would listen and make it right. I came home and I told myself, right, 3 minutes. 3 minutes to sit and be annoyed then let it go and have a good evening.

About the time it takes to get something off my chest in a comment.

Just another way of putting down a bit more baggage and feeling lighter.

Not knowing an individual in the past would make it difficult to determine personally just how far in their journey theyve come which is why its important to "meet them where they are at" currently- Because the transition from puddle, to basket, to functioning individual wasn't witnessed- What may appear to be a waste or lost cause can in reality be a vast improvement, which took a great deal of effort to achieve-

rosecarmel

Not knowing an individual in the past would make it difficult to determine personally just how far in their journey theyve come which is why its important to "meet them where they are at" currently- Because the transition from puddle, to basket, to functioning individual wasn't witnessed- What may appear to be a waste or lost cause can in reality be a vast improvement, which took a great deal of effort to achieve-

That's actually beautiful rosecarmel

Not to mention, making assertions about how people feel or wjere they ought to be is actually just gaslighting

rosecarmel -- I totally agree. I was a train wreck at the beginning of my recovery but at least I knew I was in one. Which was still healthier then when I was in denial.

Recovery is definitely a journey and regardless of where you are, if you are moving in the right/healthier direction that should be commended.

Abusers get so stuck, dare I say 'addicted' to their perceived power, that change/self-reflection is just "too much" to contemplate. Easier to try to gaslight/convince their victim that they are the issue/feeling things they are not etc. then accept that healthy people shun dysfunction.

Why else the push to make No Contact into an act of 'abuse'? Why the push to make No Contact = 'The Silent Treatment'? Why the insistence that abuse can be done from a distance/where No Contact is clearly at play? It certainly, in the case of a Scapegoat child, means that the 'blame' and abuse is projected onto Us.

If I had to rate my current condition it would be rickety, half way between basket and fully functioning .. which I guess is better than toast .. which precedes puddle .. but follows lobotomy .. ?

I've always been more tortoise than hare in area of growth .. the only thing fast about me is my mouth .. which can cut to the quick-

Example: Sibling cared for parent- Sibling called me to vent frequently that parent repeated themselves, as they themselves repeated themselves to me- I said you're doing the same thing, calling me and repeating yourself- They said it's different because parent forgets and asks the same questions again and again- I said you're telling me again and again that parent asks the same questions again and again because you remember because you can- If that's the difference you're referring to, I understand- Nonetheless, you're repeating yourself, too- Just like they do-

Truth results in distance in most instances-

rosecarmel -- "Truth results in distance in most instances-"

I am a firm believer in living in the now. How we live our 'now' affects how the future will unfold and no reflection of the past has its own set of consequences.

By only looking forward, perhaps some are missing what might not be working well 'in the now'... Like the things that lead to their No Contact. In order for that to work, one must examine what happened in the past. Denial of the past and the damage it causes is never going to lead to reconciliation.

I am starting to believe that for most, healthy reconciliation isn't the true goal at all. Otherwise why, other then to look back and say, "I was a 'good'/wonderful parent." is the idea of examining their past behavior, especially after their AC has outlined their grievances (that letter/texts full of 'lies') so threatening? Because IMO abusive parents know they are, so rather then admit that, sweep everything under the rug. Leave the past in the past etc. I have on my end but I still can't have a healthy relationship with 'mom' while she carries this false innocence (denial)/didn't do anything 'wrong' attitude. It means she's still unhealthy and the truth is, healthy/healthier shuns dysfunction.

I have read through most of the lists by those damaged still by their lack if good parenting, it seems to consume their lives. It didn't happen to me, I had loving parents, so was loving to my children, it's how you bring up a family, with love and guidance. What shouts out me, how are these children of abused children going to be. It's continuing the cycle. I feel it's so unfair on these grandchikdren inheriting all this angst, because you can't put that abuse to one side as it's all consuming. Very sad all round for everyone. No doubt I will get told it doesn't affect the children everyone is all perfectly ok with it, but it can't be separated, those children will grow up thinking its normal not to see grandparents and siblings. There has to come a time when the past just stays there.

One of the benefits I have Holyhannah and rosecarmel is that when I come across blatantly abusive personality types who twist reality and ignore truth to try to cause pain while (trying) to get away with it and looking innocent.... Is well... Its really very easy to spot and im able to just roll my eyes and laugh.

I'm careful to teach my children how to spot abusive personality types although they did seem quite good at that anyway to be fair when the oldest ones came to me with concerns about their (now ex) grandmother.

All sorts of people are going to have opinions about me, I am only going to be impacted by the opinions of people who matter.

Sparkling There's a wonderful quote by Steve Maraboli that says:

The truth is, unless you let go, unless you forgive yourself, unless you forgive the situation, unless you realize that the situation is over, you cannot move forward.”
Steve Maraboli

That was the quote I was thinking of Chewbacca when I wrote my garbled post! ?

I've joined the estrangement threads after a long break, after reaching the conclusion that rather than helping the process, for some it meant confirming stickiness and anger.
Sparkling and Chewbacca, thanks for your posts this morning. You express concisely my own feelings. We need to integrate our difficult, painful, abusive experiences, we can't simply put them in a box and walk away. That means firstly, forgiving ourselves, forgiving the situation and accepting it's over. Forgiveness of abusers is something not everyone can do, thats a whole other discussion but moving on and not being defined by abuse experiences is essential.

Yes, moving on and not being defined is the crux of it all Iam64. Refusing to allow the past to continually, and perpetually, haunt your present and future is so damaging and unhealthy. It's impossible to see the present and future when your continually looking back over your shoulder at the past.

Happy to oblige Pantglas2!

A portion of this discussion "sounds" strikingly similar to the above example given of the discussion with my sibling-

What we have here are the same people repeatedly returning to estrangement threads suggesting that others move on all while at the same time continually returning to the estrangement threads themselves to tell others to move on-

It's ironic- It's also habitual- And as funny as preachers who fail to practice what they preach-

?

Regarding reconciliation, it requires work whereas a reunion doesn't-

Reunions can lead to reconciliation- But in my experience as a rule they don't- They return to the distant, dysfunctional relationship they once were-