Why you might be estranged... aka the same theme/attitude of EP/EGP's that EAC understand.

Sorry but who's the victim?

I think everyone who has contributed to this thread is a victim when it comes to the subject of estrangement Chewbacca.

That said, when it comes to 'victim bashing' I've seen a lot of posts making unpleasant sweeping generalisations about EP's and EGP's here. Some more obvious than others.

For example in a recent post it was said that EP's who recognise their EAC's have abusive partners are to believed. The very next sentence saying that abusers recognise other abusers.

Unpleasant and unnecessary.

I come less and less to these threads even tho I like gransnet otherwise. I haven't intentionally said anything nasty to EPs and have tried to be kind with my thoughts. People here have been abusive to me and I feel apathetic towards others who've been allowing that to happen here as I didn't expect it at all. Its really sad. Anyone who reads this whole thread can see the denial, rugsweeping and even lying going on. I'm sorry for everything people have been through here I really am but it's not a nice place for people like me, even tho I thought it would be because older people do estrange too as I did. Many do. To be hurt and laughed at by their peers is shocking. I think I tend to look for the best in people even though I've seen the worst x

There are people who bring me back, EPs and ECs alike with their fair minded thoughts and interesting articles. Some make me deeply uncomfortable though and I think need serious help to see past their own pain to the impact their words may have on other human beings and their mental health x

Yennifer -- It's not any wonder why some people end up with Escapegoat kids.

I hope you husband is recovering, Smileless-

Unfortunately Yennifer not everyone has "tried to be kind with (their) thoughts" on this and other estrangement threads.

I agree with your comments about "denial, rug sweeping and even lying going on" and you are not alone in feeling this way. You seem to think though that these only apply to you or any other EAC but they don't, they apply to EP's/EGP's too.

The very title and OP of this thread was antagonistic IMO. It should have read "why you might be estranged... aka the theme/attitude of abusive EP's/abusive EGP's that abused EAC understand".

From the outset this thread has made constant references and links to support the view that all parents who are estranged are abusers. I've seen posts made by EP's/EGP's ignored because they don't fit the apparent agenda. You made no reference to mine for example about a post which at the very least implied, that an EP who recognises their EAC's partner is abusive, is to be believed as abusers recognise other abusers.

A lot of the content may have been more appropriate to a thread or site about child abuse and the victims of that abuse.
There are I know some really awful accounts from EP's at the abuse they have suffered at the hands of their EAC.

I don't know if the inclusion of one or two would have aided this particular debate, but I do get the sense that the constant reference and linking to accounts that anyone of us can find on line if we want too, aren't improving the overall tone of this thread.

Any open forum is going to pose challenges for those coming to terms with the pain they've been through, and are going through. The only 'safe' place is a closed site but those too have their challenges.

Thank you rosecarmel he's doing well and I hope to have him home soon.

Yennifer -- It's actually another "common theme" I have noticed. Some EP's claim they went No Contact with their FOO but their reasons for doing so were good/right unlike their children. Then they will support each other and say things like, "It seems to me that you had very good reasons for distancing yourself from your birth family – not at all like most of the AC we discuss here."

Or, "I’ve always said that if the family relationship was an abusive one, then it does become necessary to estrange from a harmful and abusive situation."

Abusive parents are the 'deciders' of everything. They get to "decide" if their estrangement from their own parents is 'good'/right and they get to "decide" if their children are 'right' to walk away from them. It's, "I'm 'right' because I say I am and you are automatically 'wrong' for the same reason... because I say so."

Holyhannah this whole thread is a clear example of scapegoating. Instead of picking on a strong person like you, posters choose out a vulnerable poster to pick on instead. You are unassailable and they don't like what you have to say so Yennifer is made scapegoat and all animosity and vitriol is directed at her instead knowing they can hurt her.

Then come the enablers. Standing by and passive aggressively agreeing with posters attacking her in order to agree with them without "looking bad" themselves. Yennifer who clearly hasn't agreed with everything you say Holyhannah and has in her own words said she does have empathy and understanding for estranged parents.

I hope Yennifer you can now see that estranged parents who are not responsible for their own plight are in fact the proverbial unicorn. Very rare indeed. Of course I am not talking about those poor grandparents who have lost grandchildren due to divorce etc.

All some of the estranged parents on this post have done is prove themselves capable of scapegoating, enabling abuse, gaslighting and being generally abusive. Thus proving why they are estranged as the topic of the post discusses.

Imagine the sheer stupidity of abusive people not trying to prove themselves the opposite of abusive. The stupidity of commenting on this post at all as I expect non abusive unicorn estranged parents would feel very uncomfortable here watching this play out.

Their own nastiness makes me celebrate their estrangement.

"It seems to me that you had very good reasons for distancing yourself from your birth family". I've said that myself here on GN to EAC but said parents rather than birth family and I've seen other EP's say the same.

I've never said or seen anyone say "not at all like most of the AC we discuss here".

".... if the family relationship was an abusive one, then it does become necessary to estrange from a harmful and abusive situation" what's wrong with that? Common sense surely.

Abusive parents aren't the only ones who are the deciders of everything, EAC are deciders too. "They get to decide if their estrangement from their own parents is good/right and they get to decide if ....(they) are right to walk away from them".

So blinkered, such tunnel vision "non abusive unicorn estranged parents".

I'm sure any non abusive EP will find some of the posts on this thread very unpleasant as would any EAC with genuine reasons for their estrangement.

"Their own nastiness makes me celebrate their estrangement".

Yes, I have no trouble believing that.

"I'm sure any non abusive EP will find some of the posts on this thread very unpleasant as would any EAC with genuine reasons for their estrangement."

LOL as long as they are 100% on your side they are fine by you as always Smileless2012 no matter how nasty they are to others here.

Starblaze -- You are spot on. I have observed that the points you and I made clearly don't connect. Why would non-abusive parents care about what abusers do and say? Why argue that the content here is unpleasant? The children that those type of abusers victimized would agree -- It IS unpleasant listening to what abusers sound like. If the content doesn't relate to them, why comment at all?

Those are retorical questions of course.

And what side would that be? The side of reason and wanting a balanced discussion.

"no matter how nasty they are to others here" well that's the pot calling the kettle isn't it.

I know what your agenda is Starblaze it's been the same one for months and is unlikely to change but that really is your problem not mine, and I hope it doesn't become anyone else's problem and we don't have a repeat of what happened a few months ago, where entire threads were disrupted and deleted
due to unpleasant and divisive posts.

I don't usually put 'LOL' but I will in reference to you posting "as long as they are 100% on your side they are fine by you always". I mean it is funny isn't it when someone only has to disagree with you to be accused of bullying and stalking LOL.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Any decent and caring human being cares about what abusers do and say. It is not only the EAC on this thread who are victims of abuse.

If you don't want or appreciate comments made by other than EAC HolyHannah why start this thread in the first place?

I totally agree that "It IS unpleasant listening to what abusers sound like" and abusers and abuse for that matter come in many forms.

3nanny yes he's doing well thanks for asking and I'm hoping to have him home by the end of next week if not before.

If a point is worth making then it's best to do so in a mature and reasonable way. If not, any validity the point may have had is lost in the nastiness.

We're not abusers 3nanny, we're unicorns; a rare and beautiful creature.

Smileless2012 Will you get this post deleted now in order to cover yourself and lie again in future? As you tried to get the EAC only thread deleted when you realised you looked bad having deliberately infiltrated a thread that was not for you, not talking about you and not even unkind to you to moan and wail because it wasn't about you?

As I said to you back then, your problems with other gransnet members had nothing to do with me. You just scapegoated me to feel better. Now you expect me to stand by and watch the same happen to another?

You really should work on your determination to make everything about you and be the biggest victim in the room.

Good grief. I've said my piece. I have nothing further to say at this point and much better things to do with my free time.

Oh dear, it's been explained to you several times I think but you don't seem to understand so I'll try again.

This is an open forum so anyone can contribute to any thread, they don't have to infiltrate one.

You keep telling yourself that Starblaze but I'm not the only GN who remembers what happened here on GN and your part in it. You must be pleased that the thread that had an apology from you to me on it, was one of the threads deleted so you can keep on with your denials.

"I have nothing further to say at this point" catch up with you later then.

I don't know about anybody else but I've enjoyed this thread! My emotions have run the gamut, from seriously pissed off to laughing my ass off! Mostly it's been illuminating and interesting to read everyone's personal take on their situations -

Overall I've enjoyed it too rosecarmel.

Seeking agreement can result in toxic cohesiveness- Not always, of course- But it happens frequently- Especially so in forums, where devotion to particular views can get reckless-

I think I've learned lots about why estrangement happens but I'm not sure I've enjoyed it. Who enjoys having to cut off a family member? I do feel really good about it now though and I understand myself and my childhood much more thanks to this thread and a lot of the articles. I think I will be a better parent myself. My children are my absolute world and they've lost some attention from me recently because I have been trying to protect the child I was here. I'm an adult now and I am safe from abuse, they can't hurt me anymore. I'm not going to argue with anyone again. I am entitled to post here too and I have listened to everyone who has posted here and considered everything that has been said. I do think that discussion can be had without nastiness or telling people to get hit by cars. Have a good weekend x

Everyone's entitled to post on any thread Yennifer, that was my point.