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What EP's need to hear from a fellow Estranged Parent.

(245 Posts)
HolyHannah Mon 16-Mar-20 01:37:42

HolyHannah Tue 17-Mar-20 05:43:37

Madgran -- I agree that there are many causes of eating disorders. With what Lavazza1st said and added to with, 'she divorced the father because he was abusive'... It's very easy to see the progression of, mom admits there was abuse in the home when the child(ren) were young. Child develops self-harming/dysfunctional behaviors...

After that I see the, "We tried our best/We listened to the 'experts' etc." but there is no... "Okay... I 'get' it. Even when 'trying my best' and listening to experts, We were the adults and in 'control' of You and how you were treated. So whether it was one of Us or a combination/group of Us adults that failed You... All the adults in your world carry some responsibility for the pain you feel now."

But I see none of that attitude from Lavazza1st... Instead she said, "I do really question myself if I should have maybe got them adopted as it just seems like too much pain after so much effort thats effectively unrequited love and a one sided relationship." This parent seems more concerned about her 'situation' then the screaming pain of her child's behavior.

Smileless2012 Tue 17-Mar-20 09:49:02

Not knowing whether or not your son will be aggressive and or abusive if you do see him is very stressful for you Lavazza1st; you must feel as if you're negotiating an emotional mine field.

Lavazza1st does accept that her son's early childhood experiences have impacted on him. She posted "the damage in the early years has likely been too much for him".

I disagree that she "seems more concerned about her 'situation' the the screaming pain of her child's behaviour". Her own "screaming pain" is clearly evident in her posts together with her understandable frustration; "and how on earth do you help someone who doesn't want help".

What else can any parent do but listen too and take the advice of experts when faced with a situation they have no idea how to deal with? That is an example of accepting and taking responsibility as is a mother, leaving her abusive husband and her children's father for their protection.

Madgran77 Tue 17-Mar-20 11:12:35

Holy Hannah Ok she is expressing her pain from her perspective. That is human. You express your pain from your perspective just as we all do, least of all on this site when people are trying to make sense of their feelings, whether those feelings are entirely valid, considered or open to others perspective or not!

I am struggling to work out how you can apparently completely ignore Lavazza1st statement "the damage in the early years has likely been too much for him" and then state that you see none of that attitude in the OP! It may not be expressed directly re taking responsibility but it is reasonable to assume she has a level of understanding of that responsibility from that statement! If assumptions can be made about her attitude one way then they can be made and acknowledged from the other way as well, to provide balance.

She is blatantly worried about her AC and their screaming pain as well as her own screaming pain at the whole mess.

HolyHannah Tue 17-Mar-20 13:46:13

Madgran -- Lavazza1st exposed her children to a dysfunctional environment. That obviously did damage given the symptoms displayed by at least one of her children. She created the circumstances that caused the damage. The help/support she provided clearly fell short as the child's mental health didn't improve.

Part of the lack of improvement could be due to her own dysfunctional thought processes, the ones that the article says to avoid. While she is worrying and anxious over her pain she is unable to give focus to the pain/emotional injuries of her child(ren).

There is no greater insult/more damaging behavior then a child abuse victim hearing from an adult that was supposed to 'be in charge'/the parent that their pain is equal to yours. It's not. An adult has options/choices available that are not there for a minor child and as we grow we learn this so hearing a parent say, "I know you are hurting but I am too!" is not a path to reconciliation or healing.

Smileless2012 Tue 17-Mar-20 14:41:01

I read with disbelief your judgemental post HolyHannah. Rather than exposing "her children to a dysfunctional environment" she took them away from one when she left their abusive father.

You have no idea if Lavazza1st is unable "to give focus to the pain/emotional injuries of her child(ren)", once again you are jumping to your usual blinkered conclusions.

It is obvious to anyone who has read her posts that, as Madgran posted "She is blatantly worried about her AC and their screaming pain as well as her own screaming pain at the whole mess".

Only someone who has experienced life with the abusive father of their children could begin to understand what this mother has been through and continues to go through faced with being estranged by her own AC.

The help and support provided, as directed by the experts that were consulted, may well have sadly fallen short but that should not be used by you or anyone else, including her son as stick to beat this heartbroken mother with.

I agree that "I know you are hurting but I am too" is not productive when looking for reconciliation and/or healing. L is expressing her personal pain here and there is nothing to suggest that she has spoken those words to her son.

Abusive and aggressive behaviour wont help reconciliation or healing either, and it's those behaviours she is receiving from her son, who she's unable to help because he refuses everything she offers.

Madgran77 Tue 17-Mar-20 14:58:09

I am very well aware of the nuances of communication between parents and abused children/adults!

I'm not saying "pain competition" is a path to reconciliation or that the childhood did not cause damage. Lavazallst is not saying that either

I am saying that she is only human in expressing her own pain on this thread and assumptions should not be made about her because she is mainly expressing her own feelings and that pain whilst describing her ACs behaviour. If she could be allowed to process her feelings and pain constructively on this thread she might be able to focus further on her ACs pain!!

I am a believer in constructive critical comment that other people can hear even when in pain, because of the way it is expressed!!!

For that reason I will not continue our discussion because I do not think Lavazalsst is getting that from the way comments are being expressed in our discussion.

Lavazalsst I hope that you can find food for thought from the links shared and comments made and draw some conclusions about the right way forward for you as a parent of an AC so obviously in pain and as a parent in pain yourself, who is trying to process the situation you all find yourselves in flowers

ananimous Tue 17-Mar-20 15:29:14

To enter into an abusive relationship you must be yourself dysfunctional.

Standing by whilst you accept an abusive a relationship for yourself is one thing (part of the abuse cycle) bringing children into the equation is a choice and it is enabling toxic behaviour to subject babies to trauma.

To grow you must first learn.
Some EP cannot even bring themselves to apologise in a civil manner to their nearest and dearest, even going so far as to cut them out of their will. Downright mean considering the child has learned everything from the parent, good and bad.

An apology could end a lot of estrangement, with both parties starting from a place of respect.

Sadly, some people think they have learned enough.

Emotional neglect of children causes mental health issues.

If your child broke their leg due to your negligence, and found themselves disabled by it later on in life - would you feel that years later they should "Just get over it?"

Giving rubbish advise to other EPs on GN is so cringe-worthy it is painful reading sometimes.

i.e.'My road leads nowhere, and to pain: Here's what I did to get there, you can too' - kind of posts.

ananimous Tue 17-Mar-20 15:32:51

Parentifying your child is another abuse that people seem unaware is an underlying cause of estrangement...

ananimous Tue 17-Mar-20 15:35:30

Bottom line: If you are estranged from your child it is because you are unreasonable.

grannyactivist Tue 17-Mar-20 15:40:25

ananimous I am assuming (hoping) that you have not read both of the contributions I made to this thread yesterday?

Smileless2012 Tue 17-Mar-20 15:41:17

"Giving rubbish advise to other EPs on GN is so cringe-worthy it is painful reading sometimes" I was thinking the same thing ananimous only with regard to some of the advice being given by non EP's.

"To enter into an abusive relationship you must be yourself dysfunctional" a grossly miss informed statement.

ananimous Tue 17-Mar-20 15:45:56

Grannyact I avoid your posts usually

grannyactivist Tue 17-Mar-20 15:48:52

ananimous - oh, don't quite know what to say to that. hmm

ananimous Tue 17-Mar-20 15:49:26


You are another who hates facts.

ananimous Tue 17-Mar-20 15:50:19

Ignorance is bliss, apparently.

Yennifer Tue 17-Mar-20 15:51:18

I'm not an expert on these things, just reading with interest. I think we all have responsibility to raise our children to be resilient and mentally healthy even if that's not easy with outside influences, we know those influences exist don't we? We all make our own life choices. If children are exposed to abuse in any way, and their growing brains are damaged, surely we can't ever give up on them? x

ananimous Tue 17-Mar-20 15:59:09

This thread is another shining example of trauma bashing up against trauma.

The pain of my words comes not from any offence a healthy parent might have, but from deep shame and guilt that must be forever denied, thus enabling the toxicity to be firmly projected elsewhere - even onto an anonymous web user who states facts.

My delivery is not as careful as the OP, but life is short and some of you seem to be wasting some of the best times you never had with your children.

Madgran77 Tue 17-Mar-20 16:04:23

Stating facts is NOT the issue!

ananimous Tue 17-Mar-20 16:08:11

Clearly, I'm not the only one avoiding certain posters!

ananimous Tue 17-Mar-20 16:23:17

I am estranged from my daughter, but this is not a defensive mother speaking. I had no idea, for many years, why my daughter suddenly cut contact not only with me, but with my whole family including her siblings, her aunts and uncles, cousins, grandparents etc. She immediately changed her phone number and moved house to an undisclosed location.

Usually the whole family are dysfunctional, and also friends we orientate towards will have similar/familiar toxicity traits.

Smileless2012 Tue 17-Mar-20 16:39:32

No I don't hate facts ananimous that's the point, it is not a fact that you someone must be dysfunctional to find themselves in a dysfunctional relationship.

rosecarmel Tue 17-Mar-20 16:54:34

It isn't so much a matter of who did or didn't do their best, who did what right or wrong- It boils down to understanding what your actions or inaction "caused"-

That's what the OP is about in a nutshell- She doesn't dance around the problem, she addresses what she caused-

Smileless2012 Tue 17-Mar-20 17:03:23

I agree and IMO Lavazza1st has demonstrated some understanding of the effect her children's childhood has had, in particular on her son so I don't understand why she's come in for criticism.

grannyactivist Tue 17-Mar-20 17:06:49

Usually the whole family are dysfunctional, and also friends we orientate towards will have similar/familiar toxicity traits.

I am glad to report that we are not a usual family in this regard. smile

Madgran77 Tue 17-Mar-20 17:10:50

That's what the OP is about in a nutshell- She doesn't dance around the problem, she addresses what she caused-

Exactly rosecarmel