Frightened I will never see her or overcome this block

Notanan has it right. Harassing a high risk individual, their front line worker spouse, and making a nerve wracking time for them about YOU and YOUR anxiety is selfish and would completely eliminate any hope of further reconciliation.

Sally,

You offered. You did the most you could.
Your dd knows where to find you. There is nothing else you can do. You tried.

Unfortunately, in an estrangement, it is a radical change to go from 0 contact (starting in 2012) to continuous contact and interaction.
It is like from going from 0 to 100 km/h in 3 seconds. Too much.
It is not a realistic expectation.

"I have tried contacting both,offering any help they might need, and pleading for some form of rapprochement, with the same result as always........nothing!

I know it's selfish of me but I so need that contact, to know that she is well, to help if I'm able. It's breaking my heart."

This is key

If anything, what you have done has further cemented the estrangement.

Help is welcome when it is what the other person needs, not what the helper is willing to do.

Please stop.
Do not contact them again.

You recognized you are selfish. You are saying you are doing it for you, not for your daughter.
A relationship is a two way road, not one way. She chose not to reply and you have no other choice but to respect her decision

I don’t see it as respecting the decision, more as learning to live with it. Estrangement is a kind of death, and no one would tell a poster to respect it, or back off, or whatever if her child had died. The OP has to grieve for her lost relationship with her daughter, and eventually she has to learn to live with the loss. It isn’t selfish to wish for a different outcome. Parents love the child, even when the child has wronged them.

Sally

Your name was familiar so I checked for background in this board.

Stop talking to your dd and start concentrating on yourself.
Your mental health issue (bipolar) is not near under any kind of control. Posts from December 2019 are very telling. Even one from yesterday.

You claim to say you do not know what your dd is angry about
Till you realize how your mental health impacted her childhood, there is 0 chances of reconciliation.
Your posts in this board very clearly paint a picture of what is the problem. Whether you are willing to face it, that's up to you

Just leave your dd alone.
Stop the counselling suggestions, the apologies, everything.
She deserves a chance to heal from her broken upbringing.
If you love her, do what is best for her, not for you

Your poor dd. She has my sympathies.

Try to focus on what your daughter wants and needs, she has made it clear she wants no contact. I really think you should do as she wishes, the last thing she needs in such troubled times us more aggravation, Iam sure the last thing you want is to add to her troubled. I would just send a birthday card when the time comes. If you have bi polar it is very hard for members of that family to deal with, I know you can't help it as you love her, but it would be kindest to just let her be until she decides she wants to see you. Try to direct your thoughts on making as good a life for you now. As much as we want no one can make some one love you

Hi Sally, I'm sorry for some of the negative comments made in reply to your post. Some people just don't get it, I don't understand when gransnet is supposed to be a site offering support. You did nothing wrong trying to reach out to your daughter. I wont give up on my daughter either and I will continue messaging her periodically just to let her know that I love her and hope she's ok. I dont see it as selfish, a mother can't just cut the heart strings when she brings a child into the world, a love from a mother to their child is unconditional. When you love your child and they do what our daughters have done to us of which we just can't understand why, we keep reaching out to them. Fact your d is vulnerable and sil is on front line due to covid then you would think they would understand you wanting to know they're ok. So you did do the right thing and I hope eventually your d will come to her senses x

elana

If you've been told not to contact someone, any continued contact is harassment and unlikely to get you the result you want.

If your daughter has made it clear she wants no contact, you need to respect that.

I understand the no contact wishes from my d but this is about the contact with my gc and their feelings. Unfortunately because they are children they don't really get a say, especially my 3yr old who hasn't even got a voice her being so young. The 2 older gc do though, and although my d messaged me a few weeks back informing me that the children didn't want to speak to me and my d apparently didn't know why ?? after I took my gc Easter eggs to the house texting my d to let her know I was going to leave them on the doorstep, to my amazement my 12yr old gs came to the window, he was full of smiles and beams and we had a wonderful conversation through the window. I was in tears at the joy of actually seeing him. He told me he loved me as I did to him, I blew him a kiss goodbye and he did the same when I got back into my car. He was so happy to talk to me, I didn't coax him to the window, he came willingly, so I now know my d lied to me, she hasn't even given my gc a choice in the matter. He spoke with me as my d wasn't home which speaks volumes so I will never give up on them....

Your daughter has a right to decide whether you have a relationship with her minor children. It sounds as if you're going behind the parents' back. That's teaching your GC that it's acceptable to do things their parents won't approve of. That's frankly unacceptable and demonstrates you are not a safe person to be around those children.

Please stop NOW before you find yourself in legal trouble.

Elana,
Your background makes your replies even creepier

This is the poster with sexual abuse of gd, the same gd who abused the daughter's son.

elana -- Given your story and the previous background you have provided here, your statement of, "I understand the no contact wishes from my d but this is about the contact with my gc and their feelings." and here's why I doubt that...

You have demonstrated that you have no idea how child abuse victims behave/interact with their abusers. You have no clue as to the damage and conflict you are putting into your grandchild's world by your actions.

The child may or may not have been 'happy' to see you, but the child likely knows the encounter will make their parent(s) 'unhappy' and now they are into a forced to pick sides or lie/deceive about what actually transpired. You are perpetuating confused/dysfunctional thinking on this child and yet claim you are thinking/caring about their feelings/needs?

Putting minor children in 'no win situations' is one of the very definitions of emotional child abuse! Yet you contacting these children is clearly 'good' for them from your perspective? Your perspective is clearly skewed.

Here's a story about perspective I learned in recovery...

A woman looked out her kitchen window every day as her neighbor hung the wash. While the linens were supposedly 'clean' when they went on the line, it was obvious to the woman that the laundry was not 'clean enough' to be hung and she complained to her husband that that woman/wife should be ashamed of how 'dirty' her laundry still was when hung out.

The next day, the woman observed her neighbor hanging the linens again and this time? The laundry looked "clean" as the neighbor was hanging it. Satisfied, the woman said to her husband, "See? It was like she heard me and finally got her act together! I knew she was doing 'it' "wrong" the whole time."

The husband said, "Nope. Nothing's changed. I just washed the kitchen window."

Sorry to hear of your difficult situation. I understand how painful it is for you.
The estrangement instigated by your daughter gives her some control and power to hurt. It is the action usually of people who have low self esteem.
Her partner will probably be supporting her in her actions and the situation will bond them closer together .
When you are dealing with people who behave like this you maybe should bear in mind that the more you try to heal the more their inadequate need to hurt and manipulate is fed.
I hope you have other children to give your love to.

At least you know for certain that your D was lying when she told you your GC don't want to talk to you but no doubt you suspected that was the case elena.

At 12, your GS will not forget the bond and relationship he has with you and your D's doing herself no favours keeping him away from you. She's potentially running the risk of affecting her own relationship with him.

"When you are dealing with people who behave like this you maybe should bear in mind the more you try to heal the more their inadequate need to hurt and manipulate is fed". I totally agree Allotmentdays.

I do understand though, the need to keep trying especially when there are GC who you know and love involved.

Unfortunately because they are children they don't really get a say, especially my 3yr old who hasn't even got a voice her being so young. The 2 older gc do though, and although my d messaged me a few weeks back informing me that the children didn't want to speak to me and my d apparently didn't know why ??

This is why I struggle when posters say they don’t know why their son/daughter/grandchildren etc don’t wish to speak with them/have cut them off.

You do know why. You have been on here posting about it over the past few weeks!

I can’t believe you put your grandson in that position Elana.

You have used this:

to my amazement my 12yr old gs came to the window, he was full of smiles and beams and we had a wonderful conversation through the window. I was in tears at the joy of actually seeing him. He told me he loved me as I did to him, I blew him a kiss goodbye and he did the same when I got back into my car. He was so happy to talk to me, I didn't coax him to the window, he came willingly

To come to this conclusion:

so I now know my d lied to me, she hasn't even given my gc a choice in the matter. He spoke with me as my d wasn't home which speaks volumes so I will never give up on them....

How did you expect a 12 year old child to react? He is conflicted because you are his grandmother and he has known you his entire life. There is nothing to read into - it is normal for humans to feel conflicted.

It’s the exact same logic behind how you used this:

But then my d has still allowed me to take my gs away on holiday, last year camping, year before caravanning for a week. Each holiday has been myself, daughter in law, my two gs 11 and 12 and my 11yr old gd. My 11yr old gs, accuser of my 11yr old gd has happily come on holiday with us every year, always had a blast, loved every minute asking when can you take us again nanna. Yet this same child is claiming he is scared to death of his cousin of something that happened when they were 6yrs old

To come to this conclusion:

which brings me to question if my gs was so scared of being around his cousin, my gd, then why would he want to go away anywhere in the company of someone he was so scared of

You have said that your granddaughter wasn’t sexually abused when your post describes her as being sexually abused.

You begrudgingly admitted that you believed some of what your grandson had said, when pressed, but quickly reverted back to saying that he must have been influenced by his parents. The latter clearly being easier for you to accept.

You came on here asking the question ”How do I get through to my daughter to make her see how wrong she is” when she is the only one who believes what her son has told her and has now been backed into a corner in order to protect her children.

You have questioned your daughter’s mental health.

And you are still not able to see the problem?

As long as you remain in such deep denial, nothing will get better for you. There is sexual abuse in your family and until you acknowledge that and can have an open conversation with your daughter about it, accepting what has happened, then she will never deem you safe to be around her children.

I believe the posters who seem harsh, are the right ones unfortunately. I really feel for you, but you must just step back and do nothing more, hard as it is. It sounds like you’ve done all you can, and despite your daughter having severe disabilities, at the moment, it makes no difference. You obviously have older children....concentrate on them. Make them the focus of your life, if they would welcome it, because this constant persuing of your youngest daughter is bound to affect the other/ others eventually, if it hasn’t already, and you don’t want to lose them too. You can’t force her to be part of your lives, but if you leave her alone, that may change.

In response to some messages I have received I would like to clarify I didnt go behind my d back. I messaged her to let her know I was fetching easter eggs for the children. Just as I did when it was my gd birthday in February. My daughter told me via text to leave the presents on her doorstep of which I did. She text me later to thank me for the gifts. As for my 12 yr old gs he was playing on his xbox when I went to the house. After I rang him he rang me back and came downstairs to open the curtains to talk with me. I never asked him to meet me at the window this was his choice. Regarding the sexual abuse revolving around my other gd I do keep mentioning this but I'll say it again, she has never been physically sexually abused, I'll say it again, physically, in her life. She did rude things with her cousin when they were 6 years old. She was given counselling for a couple of years through the authorities to teach her boundaries of which she had no awareness of, she was being suggestive in her actions such as drawings, words etc. which all stemmed from seeing her mother behaving inappropriately with boyfriends in front of my gd when she had custody of her. Hence why the courts gave my son full custody 5 years ago. My d has always been aware of what my gd went through when she was little. My gd didnt know what she was doing with her cousin, my gs when they were 6yrs old. My gd has no memory of what went on when she was little, she doesn't remember the abuse her mother inflicted on her either thank god. So for my d to behave the way she is doing towards me there is no excuse, accusing my husband of abuse for one, all claims being investigated and cleared. I wasnt guilty of anything here, my gd is a healthy 11 yr old now, I didnt place her in that situation with my gs to start with.
I have never been in denial regards what happened between my gd and gs. I acknowledged this when my daughter called me to tell me what my gs had said. I may have reacted wrongly when I said my gs must have overheard them talking which they have in front of me about my gd behaviour before the fall out but I did apologise to my d for not realizing to the full extent of what my gs had gone through.
But all that happened was a one off incident, there is no sexual abuse going on in my family period. All I could do was apologise profusely to my d about my gd actions of which came a shock both me and my d in January when it all came out. My son and his partner are completely supportive in my pursuing seeing my gc. They know I love all my gc, including their children. My dil has messaged my d telling her straight that all this had nothing to do with me. My daughter wants me to take sides with her, she has in past said that I am on side with my gd and not my gs. How on earth am I supposed to take sides between 2 children, 11 yr olds. Yes my gd did wrong, I just dont know how I'm supposed to put things right here, how can I. I love both my gc and it is so unfair that my d wants me to take sides. She wants me to disown my gd my son and his family, my husband, all for her which is ridiculous. So if anybody has any suggestions for me I would appreciate it, thankyou all...

Elana,
You need very intense therapy to be able to make sense of your dysfunctional thoughts

To outsiders, the amount of red flags in your posts would fill out a whole continent, yet you dont see them. Not even 1.

There is no magical wand or words we can give you.

Your whole family needs therapy. Nobody can think straight using common sense.

Elana, okay, let me try another approach.

If your grandson only disclosed what happened to him in January, then you will all only be 3 months into this situation.

That is not a long time at all. Your daughter and grandson clearly need to process what has happened, and it doesn’t sound as though they have been given the opportunity to do that at all.

You initially reacted by saying that your daughter and her husband have put ideas into their son’s head. Imagine how your daughter must have felt hearing you say that, and I would assume that your daughter would have lost confidence in you following that alone.

However, your daughter has also had to deal with her sister in law “telling her straight” about what has happened. Who else has been contacting your daughter to ”make her see how wrong she is”?

You have also mentioned on here that you are thinking about taking your daughter to court for access to her children. It has been 3 months! Do you not see that even thinking about that at this stage is incredibly premature and will do even more damage to your relationship with your daughter.

I would suggest that you:

1. You give your daughter some time and space. I.e. stop messaging her.
2. Do not have any other family members contact her on your behalf.
3. See a counsellor about the best way for you to try and heal the rift that has been caused by showing her that you understand her position.
4. Do not raise or even mention to your daughter that you have been considering raising a court action, if you haven’t already.

I don’t know if the relationship can be salvaged, but if your daughter has thanked you for the Easter gifts then I would take that as a positive. You haven’t been cut off...yet. So please take a step back, give your daughter and her family some space and take this opportunity to see a counsellor and discuss your part in the relationship breakdown and what you can do to rectify things.

I actually second motherofdragons most recent post.

I will assume (because I do not know your husband) that your daughter has lashed out following your grandson’s disclosure in order to try and make sense of the situation. I can’t imagine how difficult it must be to find out your child has been sexually abused. And I don’t believe your granddaughter is at fault at all, she is just a child herself.

It may well be the case that your grandson may not want to be around your granddaughter and you need to respect that. You cannot control that nor should you try. Your grandson will be experiencing complex emotions and your daughter has every right to insist that he isn’t around his cousin.

If you are truly looking for suggestions, then speaking with a therapist would be a good start.

Bit heavy @notanan2 @SallyB392 is clearly distressed and does not have a clear understanding about why her daughter won’t respond and not having that clarity makes estrangement so much more difficult. Your responses are very insensitive there is no need to be so heavy handed, a little kindness to someone who is suffering costs nothing, yes maybe the situation may never change but you making SallyB392 feel worse is not helping anyone

Bussy
Sally has two suicidal posts in GN in the last 3 months.

It is very clear why her dd doesnt want any contact.

She needs professional help and we are not qualified to assist her

The only suggestion I have elena is that you leave things as they are for the time being.

I noted in your earlier post that you'd told your D via a text that you'd be dropping off Easter gifts for the children and as she raised no objection to your doing so, you did nothing wrong.

As I posted earlier, your D lied when she told you the children didn't want to talk to you as demonstrated by your 12 year old GS. That said I think you were wrong to 'phone him while you were at the house and don't think you should be contacting him.

If he has his own 'phone and presumably has your number I would wait for him to contact you. He's in a very difficult position bless him, not helped by his mother's, your D's mixed signals. She doesn't want you to have contact with the children but is happy for you to leave gifts to the extent that she thanked you for them later.

It's your D who needs therapy but unless she realises this, there's nothing you can do. You say she wants you to disown your GD, your son and his family and your DH, and you're right it is ridiculous.

Your D has a problem that needs professional help and all you can do is hope that she realises this and gets the help she needs.

Bussy Sally has two suicidal posts in GN in the last 3 months

All the more important to respond with a little kindness as you rightly suggest Bussy.

With respect Smileless2012, you are estranged, so are not in the best position to give Elana advice on how to resolve her current situation.

Elana, you are not yet estranged, and have the opportunity to repair the relationship with your daughter and grandchildren, but will never be able to do that by listening to this:

It's your D who needs therapy but unless she realises this, there's nothing you can do. You say she wants you to disown your GD, your son and his family and your DH, and you're right it is ridiculous.

Your D has a problem that needs professional help and all you can do is hope that she realises this and gets the help she needs

Your daughter has just found out her son has been abused. It is still very raw and painful for her family. There is nothing wrong with her. She needs to process what has happened.

What do you want Elana? Do you want to be right, or do you want a relationship with your daughter and grandchildren?

What a disgraceful post Smileless. Just because you choose to remain estranged and blind to the part you have played in your situation, doesn’t mean you need to drag others down with you.

Smileless is wrong. There is something you can do. But that involves looking deep inside yourself, but that is too difficult for some people to do, so they would rather you too remain powerless.