SUPPORT for all living with the pain of estrangement

Estrangement is such an emotive subject and when those of us who are or were estranged share our experiences, we're talking about a very personal and hurtful experience.

I can't understand why any P saying their AC's estrangement of them would be "terribly upsetting to other forum members".

By saying so, you're talking about your own experience as we all do. Perhaps some thought they would be, or have in the past been made to feel guilty and/or responsible for their own AC estranging them, when that wasn't the case.

IMO it's a sign of great insecurity or even of things not being as they seem when people become defensive at best, aggressive at worse, because another's estrangement story doesn't match with their own.

oops, should have put 'why any P saying their AC's estrangement of them was their fault and not their EAC's'

My bouncy grandson would spend ages posting golf balls down a long cardboard tube. Otherwise I had to take him out, he was so energetic. My two sons were nothing like that as toddlers, but it takes all sorts....

Smileless2012 it was almost a cult, I had spoke to many other estranged parents over the years and some I had counted as friends. When I became reconsiled I was no longer a friend. It was very hurtful. They of course were happy to tell me my daughter's reasons for estrangement were not justification enough, which I agreed for a long time but when I realised they were justifications it was too painful for them to hear.

I am glad and excited to have found this place where so many different people representing different facets of estrangement have come together

Thank you all for your support it really helps. PetitFromage in regard to learning about the issues, I have done that, I followed the campaign of Elizabeth Warren, who my D supported, read her complete web site. Have educated myself on the issues, I consider myself a moderate feminist, I've had my own work place harassment struggles and we have discussed those issues. We really are quite moderate conservatives. However I do not believe several of the policies, such as abortion on demand at any time during pregnancy and Democratic Socialism.

And as one of you posted there is no "agree to disagree" here. We have to completely accept all of her views, and as to having discussions, those turn into lectures full of accusations.

At any rate I do appreciate the support and helpful thoughts.

I got the book Beyond All Belief that was suggested on here and spent yesterday afternoon laying on the couch reading it and crying.

I am grateful for the encouragement that there may still be reconciliation but that it will take time. But I don't want it to take time. I am so sad right now sometimes I don't think I can even breath. I remember the little hands on my face, snuggling in the mornings, rock me grandma, "I love you so much grandma" talking, making cookies. My little grandson when he was 5 wanted a yellow rocket, we found cardboard boxes and cut and taped and spray painted yellow, Wrote NASA on the side, fixed it up with a control panel inside. He got in and really thought he was flying to the moon. He and his sister played with that thing for 2 years till it just fell apart.
My heart hurts so bad.

It's subjective isn't it. What one sees as justification for estrangement another may see as an over reaction. If you regarded your D's reasons for estrangement justifiable that's all that matters.

You've said you bullied her so yes, I can understand her taking the decision that she took. I'm an EP and EGP and I certainly don't feel threatened because your experience is different to mine.

I'm really surprised. I've never come across a site for EP's that was anything like a cult, just a collection of people in pain and sharing that pain.

Oh Grandmasosad your post has reduced me to tears.

You are experiencing a pain that we thankfully were spared because we never knew our GC. We were estranged when the eldest was just 8 months and of course have never seen let alone known the youngest.

The few memories you have shared of your GC are simply heartbreaking. I just don't understand how your D can do this to you and her own children.

My heart hurts so bad yes I know but I also know there's nothing you can do but sit tight and wait. We're here for you so please keep talking so we know you're OK.

and a BIG (((hug))) for you.

Thank you all

Grandmasosad that must be so difficult and painful for you. Young people can be so full of energy when it comes to politics and feel able to positively impact and change the world. My own asperations there calmed a long time ago but I understand it can be difficult not to defend ones personal ideals.

I wondered if perhaps your daughter had a personal experience with abortion, not necessarily herself but perhaps has supported someone close to her and your views may feel like something she must defend against.

Sometimes I feel it is best to love the person behind the ideals and agree not to discuss the issue at all. Standing firm on that when we see or hear things that go against our ideals can be incredibly difficult I know.

Stay strong, the loss of loved ones is unbearable but not always permanent with the right measures put in place

I've been trying to lift my mood for months (more really) now, but a few other difficulties have reared their ugly heads and knocked the stuffing out of me.
It's been all I can do to appreciate the sunny weather. I've crashed and totally ignored the garden.

I'm not sleeping, so yesterday I accidentally fell asleep on the sofa.

Anyway, I dreamt that my AC and GC just waltzed into the house all smiley and relaxed.
I put my arms out to my AC and was warmly embraced.
No words, just smiles and hugs.
We then sat watching the gchildren playing happily. In each others company, no tension or words.
We were just happy in each others company.
Enjoying the moment.

I cant get this image out of my mind. I so desperately want this to be real.

I drove to the infant school AC used to attend over 30 years ago.
Just to be close to somewhere they once loved me.
Where no knowledge of what was to come could cloud my memories.

I thought, I hoped I treated them right, or at least averagely good.
I'm so sorry I've lost them.
I really dont know how to cope anymore.
I dont think this will end for me.

You did your best for your children Namsnanny as the majority of us do.

I hope you can find even just a little comfort in the knowledge that so many of us have been where you are now, have had those dreams and wondered how on earth we were going to be able to cope, but somehow we did and you will too Namsnanny and we'll help you every step of the way, just as we've been helped.

It's what this thread is all about. .

smileless belie e me I'm trying to get over this, or through it.
I appreciate some have other problems to that make it all so much harder for them.
My jaw is aching with trying to grit my teeth and get to a better place.
Knowing they probably dont feel the same way, should make me steel myself to get past this.
But I dont know if this is forever or can be mended?
Thanks for the post

Dear Namsnanny I* know* how hard you're trying and you're doing well, really you are.

I used to think that too, that knowing our ES didn't feel the same way "should make me steel myself to get past this" and then one day I realised that it had. It just happened.

I'm glad smileless you found a way through it all. I just feel so weak. Sounds wimpy saying it, but I thought I'd handle things some what 'better'.

Estrangement is just the gift that keeps on giving isn't it?

Namsnanny I'm so sorry you are having such a terrible time. Sometimes we have to let go of the innocent children they were and embrace the adult we cannot control.

Feelings are like an avalanche sometimes, one little snowball brings the whole mountain crashing down on us. There is a way through this.
Sometimes we have to hit rock bottom to find a way back up and then every step counts for something and there is nothing to be had but progress.

Yes Namsnanny "Estrangement is the gift that keeps on giving". Don't be so hard on yourself there's nothing weak or wimpy about the pain of being estranged by your own AC.

I agree FriendlyGhost that "sometimes we have to let go of the innocent children they were" and sometimes we have to let go of the adult they've become too.

Sorry folks, it's been a long day and I've had a quick catch up but I'm too tired to do more than read and say I'm thinking of you all. May tomorrow be a good day for us all, best it can be. xx Sleep well friends.

Morning everyone, how's everyone doing. You are in my thoughts Namsnanny and Grandmasosad just wanted to make sure you're both OK.

hugshelp I love the way you pop on after a long and tiring day, just to wish us all well; thank you.

Totally understand how you are feeling. namsnanny & Grandmasosad

Hope you get some sense of calm from the empathetic wise grans on this support thread estrangement sucks the life out of you. If you let it. for all.

So here I find myself again and although I have not posted much I still always look at the thread. I did post on a thread this morning I think it was called "Complicated" and was about someone that posted the thread as she had admitted that she used to be overpowering and had bullied her daughter. Well done to her and working on herself and getting back into the relationship with her daughter.

Well everyone I do not post much because although there has been reconciliation with my daughter it is just something that I cannot hold out much hope for. I have tried and God knows how I want things to work but it seems out of my hands how to deal with her. The usual bullying
began about helping her with buying shopping etc. I still bought it though.
Anyway I will not go into that the thing I have just done is had to put my phone down on her (she rang me). She was running her brother down and saying he is just a b-----d ,
and apparently he has told my eldest daughter he is getting engaged to the woman he met before lockdown. This is what happens between my eldest daughter and the one with the GC they talk between themselves and arguments then happen. I remained calm and she was ranting on which I allowed even though I have already got a pounding headache as it is and have not felt that well for a few days.

The damning lines she then started to come out with were the final straw. I asked her how the two girls were as she has got a support worker now and the support worker spends 5-10 minutes to talk to the girls. Apparently the girls told the worker they love their mum, and also that they like to stay at Aunties because she is nice. I enquired to my daughter did I get a mention. (As far as I am concerned I help as much as possible) So my daughter started saying oh they said that nanny bought them shoes. In fact I bought them both shoes last weekend and my daughter had nothing for their dinners so I bought shopping as well. My daughter put things in context by saying just because you buy shoes it does not mean you are a protector a loving person or someone that is always around for them. So anyway I started to see red and told her if that is all you phone me up about to rant and rave and try and make me feel like (shit)
so sorry to swear ladies forgive me but that is the effect she has on me anyway I told her I was not feeling well enough to continue talking and put the phone down.

Give me estrangement any day because sometimes that is the only solution and the only way to have some peace of mind from ungrateful AC who think of nothing but themselves.
Sorry for a real disheartening post everyone have a good day and even I am going off to the shops for half an hour.
Take care all.

I'm so glad you felt able to get that off your chest 3nanny but equally sorry that you've had another unpleasant conversation with your D.

My daughter put things in context by saying just because you buy shoes it does not mean you are a protector a loving person or someone that is always around for them.

She's right however, you don't just buy shoes do you, you buy food. You have been and continue to be a protector of not just your GC but also your D, by being there for all of them.

You have encouraged your D to co operate with the support worker for her own sake as well as the sake of the children. You continue to be there for her despite the way she treats you.

I don't blame you for telling her that she's treating you like shit because IMO that's exactly what she's doing. It might even do her some good to think about that for a while.

You clearly love your D and GC and yet she makes you think about how much easier and less stressful your life would be if you were estranged from this "ungrateful AC who think(s) of nothing but themselves".

It's terribly sad that you are made to feel this way but it will pass because you love your D and your GC and even though, and I can understand why you think estrangement would be easier, you know in your heart that it wouldn't be; not for you, your D or your GC.

I hope you enjoy your trip to the shops and that the sunshine and fresh air leaves you feeling a little more settled, and will have helped to alleviate some of the anger and frustration you're understandably feeling.

Take careand pop on when you're ready so we know you're OK.

Hi Smileless2012 Many thanks for your reply which has helped to pull me out of myself and heaven knows I needed that.

In regard of the support worker you are correct and I certainly told my daughter she had to co-operate with her.
The full story is she had no choice but to co-operate as just before the covid 19 neighbours where she lived had reported a few things about the children and she now has the childrens services on her back.
I have helped her with everything to ease the strain and even when childrens services more or less ordered her to clean the house up I helped. I did not do the cleaning someone came in and helped her but I arranged a professional carpet cleaning company to do living room carpet and staircase which I took the bill for.

To then get spoken to as if I do nothing and be told oh you do not even know your GC well is more than I am prepared to take. It also seems to me that she is jealous that at the moment her brothers life seems to be going well for him, although it was not my place to discuss her brother as if he wants to tell me about his life he will and he has phoned me twice over the weekend saying he will be around to see me as he has something he wants to talk to me about, and he has not been around because he has been working. I do not discuss one child with another and will only have any family talks if all are present.

Smileless2012 how many times do I have to say these arguments will pass? it seems my daughter has some sort of a grudge and she is hell bent on not making the relationship work and unless both of us want happiness and peace and work towards that we will never achieve it, I feel as a family
there is to much dysfunction crept in over the years and it has closed the door to all good communication.

I do hope Namsnanny is okay I read some of her posts and she seems very down and weak. A couple of months ago she was keeping her garden nice and staying strong, but then this is what family life/estrangement can do to us she will be in my thoughts and I hope she can get back on top of things soon.

I wish I knew 3nanny. It's something you need to think about, just how much of this nastiness you can take and what would the implications be if you really put your foot down.

I think you have pulled back to a degree with financial support and I'm wondering if there are other things you could pull back from too.

You say she seems to be hell bent on not making your relationship work, but for me, she seems more than happy to take the support you give.

I understand how difficult this is for you but maybe doing a little less would make her see that relationships are a two way street, that if she wants the help you give her she has to change her behaviour toward you.

Of course you worry about the children, I can't imagine how awful this is for you, and you worry that they'll suffer if you're not on hand to help.

It does sound as if you've just about had enough and I totally understand that. Maybe for now just do nothing. Don't contact her and if and when she contacts you, the minute she becomes aggressive and abusive, tell her you're ending the call and do so immediately.

I'm so sorry but I don't know what else to suggest; I wish I did xx.

We're all thinking about you Namsnanny.

3nanny6 nothing to add really except

Namsnanny I hope you are ok