SUPPORT for all living with the pain of estrangement

Muffin - Granniesunite has given fantastic advice with which I totally agree. You are in an appalling situation right now and all of your friends on here are thinking of you and sending love and hugs. I am not sure that there is a 'right' or definitive answer - you just need to go with your instincts and wait for better times ahead. Sending much love

I agree with granniesunite too. Goid advice

Also, my heartfelt thanks to Granniesunite, Smileless, Pantglas2, 3nanny6, and everyone else who has been a tower of strength and support to me.

Life is strange and beautiful; we just need to embrace the joy and try to overcome the pain. I wish it were that easy - I know that it isn't - but we all do have some joy, even in our darkest hour, and that is what we need to cling to, in order to maintain our sanity.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Evening all. Smileless2012, Granniesunite, Madgran77 and
Petitfromage (hope I did not leave anyone out) you have all given such good advice to Muffin and said some really supportive things.
My heart goes out to Muffin and it is so sad to even not say too much to a daughter for fear of complete estrangement.
Muffin your husband is very ill so keep him as a priority and do look after yourself and keep your own health as best you can. When your daughter feels ready let her contact you.

Thank you Petitfromage and Madgran 77, to all of you thank you, it has helped me so much being able to talk to you all here

You've had so much to contend with with your DH muffin, that would be more than enough for many, without the situation with your D.

Your D should be proud of her parents; her dad for the daily battle he faces each day with his illness and you, her mum, who selflessly takes care of him.

and hugs for you and Mr. muffin.

A lovely post PF x

I'm so glad you got to see your GS muffin. And sorry that you are being put in such an awful situtation with the rest. I can't offer you any better advice than the lovely ladies have already given you.

thinking of you all. x

The support from the wise ladies.. think we're all ladies?... on this thread has kept me sane for the past three years. Although the reasons for our estrangement are different the pain and sense of lose experiened are the same.

I'm still learning how "to embrace the joy" PF but I can feel it slowly returning.

Muffin My husband is seriously ill too He has dementia so I fully understand how difficult you feelings are and how hard the days can be.

To all you lovely wise folks on here I wish you the best of health, love and joy in the continuing grief that is estrangement. One day at a time.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Sometimes we have to let our loved ones work out for themselves what is going on in their lives.

Sometimes - but not always I acknowledge- it's got nothing to do with us and we just need to stand back and wait.

I hope you and your husband keep on laughing muffin that's the best medicine for you both.

You're right about laughter Granniesunite. Mr. S. and I have been together 43 years and married 40 next month and he can still have me crying with laughter.

I love that smileless that and your sense of justice and honesty. It's shines. My husband did have a good sense of humor and at times I can see that it's still there thou burried under a mount of confusion.

Thank you Granniesunite. We would see the occasional glint in my lovely step father's eye and the cheeky smile we loved both of which reminded us of his sense of humor. It's very sad when confusion impacts on those we love.

We arrived at our lodge yesterday and are looking forward to a change of scenery for the next week and a socially distanced BBQ with friends this evening.

My heart goes out to you Muffin, Parkinsons is such a cruel disease, your poor husband being rejected by his beloved D, another cruelty for him to suffer! When your D fully matures & looks back on her behaviour to her DDad, surely she will hang her head in shame! Must be terribly hard for you too Muffin to cheer you a little.

Thank you Yogagirl, gransnet and especially this support thread has helped me get through this last awful year, you are all so supportive and wonderful, and i love hearing what you are all up to each day.

How are you today, Muffin? Thinking of you.

I'm so sorry you have your hubbies to worry about as well Granniesunite muffin and of course PF. Thinking of you all.
I too am very grateful for the support on this thread, so many people with such harsh problems and yet still reaching out to hold hands with others. You are wonderful ladies.

Thank you hugs, you are pretty wonderful yourself!

Hi PetitFromage and hugshelp, feeling a bit down today, been thinking about all the conditions my daughter has put for me to see my grandson, even though she knows I care for her dad at home and it's a 2 hour journey each way, and now not allowed to go to her home, will have to go to a park or resturant, have spoken to friends and they said they wouldn't agree to this, i'm starting to feel the same way as to be honest i felt like i was nearly talking to a stranger with my daughter when i met with her, i hardly recognised her as she's had cosmetic things done to her face, which obviously has made me worry more about her as was not needed, but i think i will need to see my grandson again and she knows this.
PetitFromage how is your relationship with your daughter now? and have you seen your grandchildren again?

Oh dear muffinas much as you want to be able to see your GS, expecting you to make a 4 hour round trip to meet up in a restaurant or park is totally unreasonable even without the additional responsibility of your DH's care.

I'm sure she does know how much you want to see your GS and that knowledge is giving her the opportunity to attempt to control and manipulate you.

Sending you all hugs and

Muffin Have you asked her why she is making these "rules"? Sorry if you have said before and I have missed it x

Good evening all, sorry no posts from me over the last few days as by late Wednesday the terrible heat got the better of me and I have been unwell, it was a combination of the heat
also getting dehydrated as I did not add perhaps orange and things like that to my water and my body was lacking in salts.
I know that the call from my daughter and her taking the grand-children to my daughters on the Monday morning at 5.45 am badly upset me as well.
Muffin you are being treated so badly by your daughter and while you only want to see your grand-son just be careful you do not make yourself ill, I know only too well how manipulative our AC can be as I have experienced it and still am. I am not going to answer any calls to my daughter for the time being and am going to distance myself or I know my health will suffer.
I have a chance to see my grand-daughters on Tuesday as my eldest daughter is having them for a few days and she wants me to go out with her, I feel so down-hearted about it as like my brother said to me today it is not natural or normal that you get to see the grand-children through the other daughter he is also telling me to care care of my health and just distance myself.

Muffin - thanks for asking about my situation. My DH has been quite poorly over the last few days, his last round of chemo starts this week. I will be relieved when it's over, to be honest, as it will be his 8th round and is starting to take its toll.

Regarding my relationship with my DD and DGD, I find this difficult to answer. My DD is in touch virtually every day with photos etc and of course I still love her and I hope that we can continue to rebuild our relationship. But, honestly, although I try and generally succeed in being positive and moving forward, I still have down days when I feel that I am moving backward. The hurt was so deep that I grew a large scab/scar, the trust has been eroded, and I feel wary of being hurt again. She just wants to pick up where we left off, I think, but it is not that easy.

I respond positively to her messages and make it a rule not to message when I am feeling hurt and angry, which is much less often these days, partly because I have learnt coping mechanisms. This strategy works as, if I send positive messages, I receive positive messages back, but if I send negative messages , I receive negative ones back. So it is pointless - sending negative messages will just inflame the situation and will actually injure my peace of mind, at a time when I need to be strong for DH. So we have settled into a pattern of polite neutrality.

My therapy was useful as it taught me to stamp on negative thoughts and not let them develop and subsume me. I try to live for each day and to look for the joy/positives. Mostly, I succeed.

I see the photos of the DGDs and the oldest one is the image of me at her age, so I feel a connection, but not a bond, because I have only met her once in the two years since her birth. My instinct, which is usually right, tells me that we will be close in the future, that we will have that bond, that she is part of me and that I am part of her, but I don't feel it now, or don't allow myself to, because I am afraid of being hurt again. I am 90% sure that it won't happen again, but that 10% is disproportionately powerful.

My situation is the same as yours in some respects. When DD cut us off, I wondered what would happen if one of us were to be seriously ill. She actually does seem to be seriously concerned about DH and I believe - or perhaps I prefer to believe - that a lot of the problems were caused by her DH.
If she were not concerned about DH, I don't know how I would feel, but it would be difficult to continue the relationship, I think, at least for now - but I don't know as I am not in that situation. As I have said, I would go with my instincts and there is no right or wrong answer, but I really feel for you. It is an appalling situation.

All I would say is that, now that the relationship is back, I do not feel so upset or needy, that we are on equal terms. When we visited them earlier in the year (we have not seen them since because of lockdown and shielding DH), they said several times that we were privileged to see our DGDs and to be, in effect, 'allowed' a relationship. I replied that they were privileged to have healthy children and, that being so, why would they not want them to have relationship with the extended family, with people who would love them.

And now I think differently, not that I have suffered - although I have - but that DD has suffered in not sharing the joy of her first baby with her family. I am worth a lot, and you are too, so whatever you do, make sure that you remember that and do things on your own terms. Be strong!

Sending love X

Hi Madgran, she said i can't come to her home as it's not convenient with her husband working from home now, she stopped coming to see us since being with SIL, that's how the estrangement started with me asking her to come to visit her dad, that's when she blocked us from her phone, weekends are only spent with his mum, she's only 5 minutes away from them, it's a very weird situation that has happened so gradually it's only now hitting me how cruel and controlling she is being, she told me she is moving to a bigger house very soon as her husband needs an office at home to work from, i won't be surprised if she doesn't give us the new address