The 'Perception Filter'...

Madgran -- In relation to telling people how they are feeling and dismissing and trying to insist that they are feeling something they are not... Yes, that is very disconcerting.

Not believing someone when they say, "It's all my evil DiL's fault I am estranged." is not the same as someone insisting I am upset or angry when I am not.

If someone wants to think/believe I am angry? Fine. Telling me I am angry and continuing to say I am, after I have clearly stated I am not is the issue.

Apples and oranges.

I suggest we get back to topic as otherwise, some will work to get this discussion and their embarrassment deleted so it appears to have never happened.

Dismissing what I am telling you as personal fact/truth is disconcerting

Yes that is disconcerting, for anyone when it happens to them.

Motherofdragons pot calling the kettle!!

In what way?

Always being the common denominator of heated threads? Playing the victim? Baiting and antagonising other posters?

I have seen estranged children laughed at, belittled and abused here

The carrot comment by Yogagirl was truly one of the most disgusting things I’ve read on here. Yet the most vocal posters on here said nothing.

For estranged parents who wish Holyhannah to believe that they are innocent and have done nothing to deserve estrangement.

You seem very determined to prove her right.

I have seen this play out here over and over again, I have myself been bullied and lied about by estranged parents here. I have seen estranged children laughed at, belittled and abused here.

Yet again, this will be denied by those who want to carry on being nasty while reassuring each other they are wonderful.

Motherofdragons pot calling the kettle!!

In my experience of many many estranged children, they estrange when they have children of their own because they look at them and realise that they could never treat their own beautiful innocent child the way they were treated. They realise the way they were treated just wasn't normal.

Sadly I was very depressed and unwell when I began my parenting journey and I honestly believed that the way I was treated by mum, I deserved. I didn't think they could treat my children as they treated me until my children started pointing it out. I went No Contact.

Holyhannah has asked people don't tell her how she feels. Strange that seems to have pushed buttons. Maybe it needs more thought instead of basic almost neanderthal retorts.

Perception.....the title of the thread!

So easy to dismiss someone else’s and their experience and feel that your own has value.

Another entertaining post HolyHannah

More baiting and antagonising.

Another entertaining post HolyHannah.

Great post Madgran and a very interesting and informative link.

You can't be cautious of something or know what to look for if you aren't taught to

Very true Rosecarmel But it is in my view too simplistic to think that therefore if a child is taught to look for coercive controlling behaviours they won't be caught by it because they will recognise it.

The whole thing is complicated by other factors in adult life....sexual attraction; the kindness and generosity that is recognised as a key strategy used by a coercive controller at the start of a relationship etc etc. It is not instant, it is over time …. and behaviours are gradual and insidious. By the time someone might start to recognise it they might have further complications...children; financial commitments or be bound to their coercive partner by finances or have their finances controlled. etc etc.

I am not saying that it is never because of childhood upbringing that someone finds themselves in a coercive controlled relationship. I am saying that it is not a given that if someone is in that type of relationship it must be because of failing on the part of their parents

Interesting Link: www.laurarichards.co.uk/coercive-control/

Quote
*Initially lovebombing and charm may occur to get the victim into the relationship. Gaslighting, isolation, economic control and financial abuse and rules and regulations are gradually introduced over time once the victim is emotionally invested as well as a consequence if they are broken. The rules apply to the victim rather the perpetrator creating a double standard and the victim fears the consequence if she breaks a rule.
Over time, coercively controlling behaviour erodes the victim’s sense of self, their confidence and self-esteem, agency and autonomy.
The abuser creates an unreal world of contradiction, confusion and fear. Moreover 51% of victims do not even know that they are being abused, manipulated and controlled*

*to

Yet always first the play the victim.

That said there's something to be said for their entertainment value

Smileless I assume you seen the post from Gransnet last week. Does that only apply to other posters and not you?

Whenever threads begin to get a little heated, there you are, always right in the middle of it.

Smileless -- You couldn't discredit anything I said in my post of Jun-20 18:52:48 so instead you moved to an ad hominem attack on me.

Then you accused/projected onto ME that it is I that am trying to "upset others".

And then you moved on to mocking me by calling what I have to say "entertaining".

Wow. Any other dysfunctional behavior you want to throw at me?

I don't find "Please do not put emotions onto me that I am not feeling" difficult to digest HolyHannah, just your posts in general. That said there's something to be said for their entertainment value.

Smileless -- And your opinion, humble or not, does not supersede clinical studies and documented research.

Your feeling that I am seeing things 'wrong' is only based on your feelings. Show me an example of where, psychologically, my thinking is faulty and back it with something other then your opinions/feelings.

As for the "still not upset..." That was to Petit because she insisted AGAIN "I truly did not mean to upset you and I am sorry that I have..." And nope. Still not angry/upset or any other emotion. What part of, "Please do not put emotions onto me that I am not feeling." is difficult to digest?

No you don't state facts HolyHannah just what you perceive to be facts that are IMO distorted by your own faulty perception filter.

"And nope. Still not upset" what a strange thing to post! It is never my intention to upset anyone; I leave that to you, to try anyway.

Smileless -- If there is an apple to be compared to an orange you always seem to find it.

Telling someone they are upset/angry etc. when they are not shows a whole lot of dysfunctional thinking.

Dysfunctional thought 1 -- You or Petit or anyone else knows how/what I am feeling. What part of, "I am not angry." needs to be constantly discounted/dismissed?

Dysfunctional thought 2 -- Me saying, "I don't believe the whole it's all the evil DiL narrative." is not the same as saying I don't believe someone when they say they are angry, upset, mad, happy, glad or any other emotion.

Dismissing other peoples emotions OR putting/ascribing emotions to them that are not there is highly unhealthy thinking.

The fact that you see the two issues as "the same" is exactly what I am talking about.

"You expect us to believe you when you say you aren't angry but you won't believe our 'truth' that our estrangement is all on our evil Dil." is your mentality.

Not the same things at all and if you can't see that, maybe that's part of your relationship issues with your family?

And nope. Still not upset. Just stating facts as usual.

Hannah - I truly did not mean to upset you and I am sorry that I have. I am going to bow out now, but I wish you well. X

Who warns their children about abusive, toxic, manipulative and coercive people rosecarmel?

I remember posting here on GN about when our boys were young, warning them about going off with strangers, people who might be 'bad'. Our ES said 'oh you mean like the child catcher' (from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang). I said well yes, but they don't look like the child catcher, they look just like everyone else, you can't tell they're bad by the way they look.

I was right about that, his wife looks like everyone else, she doesn't look like a bad person, even though she is one.

Our ES was never left adrift and left for dead. He walked away and refused any contact; there was nothing we could do. What a ridiculous post yours is, but only to be expected when all you appear to want to do is have a go at an EP. 'Oh no don't blame you ES's wife, it's your fault for not giving him the tools he needed to see her for what she really is'. He wasn't the only one who was duped, we were duped too. As I've said, a ridiculous post.

You might like to apologise for your ridiculous and melodramatic post, but I doubt it.

I disagree HolyHannah. You incorrectly accused PetiteFromage of dismissing what you post as your personal truth/fact which is laughable when you constantly do that to the EP's on GN. You know what I mean, 'if it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck ...'

Smileless -- There is a huge difference between calling out dysfunctional behavior when you see it and telling other people how they are feeling. The fact you can't see the difference is troubling. Are you or Petit in my head? Do you know how I feel? Nope.

It's one thing to say you think I am angry or whatever but declaring it as fact is what is troubling. Abusers often tell people what other people are feeling and use that to set the narrative to 'outsiders'.

Smileless, maybe it's time to apologize to that sweet boy of yours for not warning him in advance, yes?

You can't throw tools at someone that you never taught them how to use and then expect them not to become defensive and angry with you, especially when up to their necks in the mechanics of a manipulative relationship-

Holding yourself accountable for not providing prior guidance could provide him a lifeline, help get his head above the mess he's drowning in-

People don't go from being the kindest of souls to abusive- They do become excessively defensive when pressured and then left adrift and for dead -- estranged- You might want to apologize for that also-

As you have found out, blaming her hasn't worked- If you hold yourself accountable it could provide him with the confidence to follow suit and invite productive discussions-

What do you think?