The 'Perception Filter'...

Smileless, you said, "That's true maddyone mental health issues in an AC's partner are often a key factor in estrangement."

My MiL would totally agree with You. Her son married 'mentally ill' Me. So clearly, by your logic and hers, He estranged from Her because of Me.

Me -- "Fact - My husband was No Contact with his 'family' before We met. And I'm the 'reason' they are estranged now? Wow. That 'logic' is why I'm mentally ill."

Those labeled difficult by parents often notice what others don't or don't want them to- So they get censored into the position of ignorant and insignificant, which then becomes a pattern, a signal to the family of origin that it's acceptable behavior to treat the difficult one as less- And as the family grows, the pattern spreads- In quite a few cases, from one generation to the next-

rosecarmel -- One (of many) instant "kill shots" from EP's to claim to not know 'why' they are estranged is, "He/She was 'difficult' from day one."

Which translates to, "My child didn't pop out adoring and validating ME after those 9 months of work and my kid wants more after that? Selfish little so-and-so."

If your parent had some kind of static idea or dream of a life they wanted you to lead, you most assuredly lost their support before you were ever born- Which seems to be the case for so many people who've one way or another due to fixed perceptions became estranged-

Attitudes towards mental health are changing. Information regarding the causes of mental health conditions is widely available. You do not need a degree in psychology to know that mental health issues are mainly rooted in abuse/trauma/neglect in childhood.

That is so the truth. It is honestly amazing how many people, especially on the topic of estrangement, try to sell their opinions/views and discounting all the professional and anecdotal evidence on the internet that is contrary to their role of victim.

And thankfully I do see the attitude changing. It is getting harder and harder for EP's to sell the, "It's all the spouse." or "It's their mental illness." or "They are an addict." or "They found a 'bad' therapist who didn't even want to hear 'our side'." -- that evil 3rd party influencer.

The stigma that used to be attached to those things are now being reevaluated and more people are seeing those flailing excuses from abusers for what they are. Justifications for continuing bad behavior and denial of any part in their estrangement. Victim blaming and shaming is becoming more recognized and less tolerated.

The idea of, "You can't speak out. It will destroy HIS career/image etc." is being replaced. The idea that parents are owed honor is being replaced with, "No one needs to stay in an unhealthy relationship, even if the other person is a 'parent'."

Motherofdragons, it could be that in a professional capacity you more frequently encounter individuals seeking change-

Starblaze Absolutely, trauma plays a huge role in addiction. I work in addiction, actually.

I also have a family blighted by addiction. My parents are not addicts, but other family members are. In my family, addiction is a manifestation of a much larger problem.

There is a lot of damage in my family, and a lot of denial. The same kind of denial that I see on this board. I need to take a break from here every now and then for the sake of my sanity. I am for some reason easily triggered by some of the patterns of behaviour on here, which is strange, because I am never triggered in a professional capacity.

My mother is gone- So there will be no resurrection of hope that she might change her mind- I can only change my own-

MotherofDragons also most addiction. It won't be long until anyone playing either of those cards as a parent will be frowned at.

More often than not, mental health issues are at the root of it, either the estranged child’s, or the mental health issues of the estranged child’s spouse. Jealousy, resentment, feelings of inferiority or superiority, anxiety, etc etc

I can understand how, even up until recently, this would have been accepted as a cause of estrangement. However, HolyHannah raises an incredibly important point.

The only question/truth my 'mom' doesn't want to accept is the ultimate one, "Why is/does Hannah have mental illnesses?" The truthful/reflective answer of, "Because I wasn't even a 'good enough' parent..." is still too painful to contemplate

Attitudes towards mental health are changing. Information regarding the causes of mental health conditions is widely available. You do not need a degree in psychology to know that mental health issues are mainly rooted in abuse/trauma/neglect in childhood.

rosecarmel said, "Pretending isn't living, it's shaping yourself to fit."

And when you're the Scapegoat it doesn't matter how flexible you are, you are never going to fit in your 'family'.

For those like maddyone that say, "More often than not, mental health issues are at the root of it, either the estranged child’s, or the mental health issues of the estranged child’s spouse. Jealousy, resentment, feelings of inferiority or superiority, anxiety, etc etc." a lot of people will agree with that.

And from my 'mom's POV she would as well. She'd say, "Hannah is mentally ill." -- which is 100% true (I have documents to prove it), so she 'wins' right? "If Hannah wasn't mentally ill she wouldn't have estranged/abandoned her entire 'family' and gone No Contact with not just Us, but almost everyone she grew up around." Again, my 'mom' would be factually accurate and therefore 'correct'.

She would go on to believe, justifiably (with the facts/evidence now on her side), "Because Hannah is mentally ill, she walked away from Us." Which, gosh golly, is also true. I'm not winning in this argument at all. IF I wasn't certifiably/genuinely mentally ill, I wouldn't have 'walked away' from her perspective.

But wait... I AM 'mentally ill'. I have the "participation ribbon" as 'proof' -- It's called C-PTSD. And my 'mom' and enablers who don't see dysfunctional thinking/behavior cling to me/their AC having a mental illnesses/outside 'influencers' and THAT is the ROOT of the estrangement. Still all true.

The only question/truth my 'mom' doesn't want to accept is the ultimate one, "Why is/does Hannah have mental illnesses?" The truthful/reflective answer of, "Because I wasn't even a 'good enough' parent..." is still too painful to contemplate.

She'll revert back to all the prior 'truths' she has as 'evidence' of ME being the problem.

No maddyone I am not to blame for making that decision, I am responsible for making that decision, and it wasn't a responsibility I ever wanted but my children need a mentally healthy mother who shows them that they should never be in an unhealthy relationship, by leaving one.

I am not to blame for having an abusive parent. Not as an innocent child or as an adult.

"No, you’re to blame in your estrangement. Your decision, so own it."

My family abused me to the point of suicidal thoughts by 10 and have suffered the affects of C-PTSD my entire life. I wanted nothing more then the abuse to stop so we could be a 'family'. They couldn't stop abusing so I couldn't be a part of their life/the 'family'.

So yes, I guess it is 100% my fault I'm estranged. I just could not pretend being abused, sorry, 'enjoying' their company, was okay for my mental health anymore.

In my case, I know with certainty that my ES loves his children, but in my heart I know he married someone who is very damaged even more so than he is and I think in order for his own survival, he in his mind pretends that all is well

He could have been imprinted to pretend and survive,
and she recognized the dynamic-

But if estranged from him, how would she even know?

Pretending isn't living, it's shaping yourself to fit-

No, you’re to blame in your estrangement. Your decision, so own it.

My mum would agree, hates my husband. A decent, hard working man and great father but obviously to blame in my estrangement.

That's true maddyone mental health issues in an AC's partner are often a key factor in estrangement.

Not much valid to the view of bad mental health of EC spouse.

Don't look over the poor mental health that may have existed in home when EC were growing.

More often than not, mental health issues are at the root of it, either the estranged child’s, or the mental health issues of the estranged child’s spouse. Jealousy, resentment, feelings of inferiority or superiority, anxiety, etc etc.

It doesn’t so much depend on how the children were raised as to who they married.

The first question "How can our EC turn their backs on the very people who raised them and not give a hoot if they are dead or alive? How do you know what an EC thinks?

Next question "Can they really love their spouses, their children?" Yes. Not at all similar to same to relationships with EPs.

Last question "Are they capable of feeling love for anyone. In my case, I know with certainty that my ES loves his children" YES, see above, not the same as EPs.

Thanks for giving me the space to have a bit of a rant on here without judgement. It’s been cathartic to get that out. I think remembering that self preservation was what I was striving for helps. This blooming lockdown has brought a lot of pent up emotion to the surface for me and reading these threads have been a great outlet.

Indeed; there are times when self preservation must be the priority.

You can love someone and yet know they are not good for you and the only way you can mange to survive is to cut yourself free from them. It's not a question of not caring it's a question of self preservation.