The 'Perception Filter'...

Rosenoir "Because you are related to somebody it does not mean you have to love or even like them." "There does not have to be specific reasons for estrangement, can simply be that you do not like that type of person."

Not sure why this is so difficult to understand, people don't all get on. But blaming estrangement on EAD's OH is easier. End of.

No not easier Norah there's nothing easy about estrangement and finding yourself estranged from a once loving son who you were extremely close too is far from easy.

Estrangement happens because some people just don't get on, because of a history of abuse or because of the influence of a third party; why is this so difficult to understand?

Or perhaps that shouldn't be 'difficult to understand' but difficult to believe. The EAC on GN are believed aren't they.

Perhaps EAC always blaming estrangement on their parents is easier. End of.

Smileless2012 "because of the influence of a third party"

This I neither believe nor understand. Thanks for pointing to the dilemma. Free will. My Sil are estranged and they put it down to bad parenting. I'm aware of bad parenting, not OH able to influence. Free will.

Neither dis believing or being able to understand something doesn't mean it doesn't exist or isn't true Norah.

You're happy to accept the reasons your s's.i.l. have given for their estrangement, that it isn't due to any negative influence from their wives, your D's, but clearly aren't prepared to accept that other reasons can and do exist.

I think the position of third party shifts-

Say a son marries- He and he or he and she are 1 and 2- Third would be anyone other than them-

Smileless2012 I believe all have free will. We freely choose.

Smileless please don't put words in my mouth, you know I have never said that.

I have googled, I can't find anything. Perhaps you remember what keywords you used to find it? I'd be interested to read the research/study on the subject.

Section 76 of the Serious Crime Act 2015 created a new offence of controlling or coercive behaviour in an intimate or family relationship. The law then recognises that not everyone in an intimate or family relationship can "freely choose", yet you still believe this not to be the case Norah, because we all have free will.

Section 76 of the Serious Crime Act 2015 created a new offence of controlling or coercive behaviour in an intimate or family relationship

Do you believe your son to be in such a relationship?

I didn't put words into your mouth Starblaze, I asked you a question which I believe was reasonable as you appear to need more information in order to understand, despite the numerous accounts here on GN.

In the first year or 2 of our estrangement I read a lot about the issue but haven't done so for 4 or 5 years. There are books from Sharon Ann Wildey, the only title of one I remember being 'Abandoned Parents: The Devil's dilemma, she's written 2 others the titles I don't recall.

If you google 'Parents who have been estranged' there's a selection of material. What did you google to come up with nothing?

Yes motherofdragons we do.

Smileless you said "research" and I have never read any research on it so I was interested to read the "research". I just like that sort of thing.

Why leap to any other assumption? You already know my answer to that question.

Also, "research" would be third party, not written by an estranged parent

Yes, Smileless I believe we all freely choose. That doesn't resonate, you believe otherwise. I'll not be able to change your mind, nor you mine. In the large scheme of life it matters not. Just a difference to opinions.

I have been reading these threads for a long time and that is the first I have ever heard you say that Smileless.

It would take much more than your son ending his relationship with you for such a relationship to be considered controlling or coercive and punishable under the Act you quoted.

What other factors make you believe your son is in such a relationship?

I ask because if that is true, then your son and grandchildren would be in a very dangerous situation. Do you have concerns about the safety of your grandchildren?

Ah yes... The old "because other EP's also say so" line.

People like Sharron Wildey and Sheri McGregor are not reliable reference sources. They are estranged parents who supply no answers for reconciling estrangement because like most EP's they blame everyone but themselves while displaying all kinds of dysfunctional behavior.

Smileless cannot provide links or anything else to these 'sources' because they don't exist.

I have posted this before and not one EP has commented on it. The woman this article is written about claims to be an innocent EP who did "nothing wrong" to deserve estrangement. It is very clear why this woman is estranged...

issendai.com/wp/estrangement/the-slow-build-getting-details-one-drip-at-a-time/

Smileless, I imagine what could complicate such a case would be that if you claimed he became abusive after entering into the relationship with her, establishing him as engaging in abusive behavior, she then could counter that he was abusive with her too, and be found guilty without producing enough evidence to determine coercion-

I've said from the very beginning of my time here on GN that our estrangement is down to our ES's wife influence, so I've been saying so for 7.5 years.

There's plenty of evidence to substantiate our belief, all of which I've posted about here on GN over the years.

Yes, of course we worry about our son's and GC's welfare but there's nothing we can about it which is why we're 'out'; to make sure we can't do anything.

Research requires gathering information and 'evidence' from those with personal experience of the subject in question Starblaze.

That research may in some cases, be undertaken by someone who as well as their expertise and professional qualifications, has personal experience of the subject matter being researched. Providing that personal experience is declared, it does not necessarily negate the findings and any conclusions the researcher comes too.

Where do those researching the reasons for AC estranging their parents get their information from? They get their information from EAC. Are all those who have researched this topic not themselves estranged? I doubt it and if they are, does that negate their findings?

They more than likely wont have come across an EAC who admits to estranging their parents due to their partners or another's influence, or who would admit they had good parents who had done nothing to justify the estrangement.

That doesn't mean they don't exist.

Likewise from the other perspective I doubt a researcher has come across an EP who admits that they were abusive and that's why they've been estranged, but we all know they exist don't we.

I can only refer to the authors I have read HolyHannah and have no need or desire to produce evidence of what I know to be true.

I never had the need that you appear to have to produce evidence, I have all the evidence I need from my own experience and from the experiences others have shared. I am secure enough in my own self worth to have no need to produce evidence from others to support my case.

I didn't need evidence, I needed answers, some of which I found and am content with that.

Just say you have never seen such research conducted Smileless, it would have saved us a lot of time.

Mocking someone for ridiculous and illogical behavior is not wrong. I have the same issue with anti-vaxers, bigots and racists etc. And what you call "mocking" I call "calling out BS". People who don't call out BS are enablers.

It is just plain stupid to blame me for something that occurred BEFORE I even entered the picture. Anyone who supports my MiL's "blame Hannah" position is going to get laughed at as well.

Or am I supposed to get enraged and throw a temper-tantrum because "Somebody said something mean about Me!"? Should I go off with "both barrels" and tell 'those people' what rotten so-and-so's they are? Would that present me in a better light?

Irrational anger and rage is what dysfunctional and abusive families run on. I rather like today's young who are okay with holding up a hand to 'silly' and saying, "Okay Boomer." and walking away.

Letting peoples dysfunctional thinking speak for itself is the way I roll. I don't have to 'fabricate stories'/rewrite history when the truth is stuff like that.

"Just say you have never seen such research conducted Smileless, it would have saved us a lot of time."

As I said, you can't produce what doesn't exist.

So, is 'Slappy Mom' from Issendai's page in denial about why she's estranged? Anyone?

I've said from the very beginning of my time here on GN that our estrangement is down to our ES's wife influence, so I've been saying so for 7.5 years

Yes, but you saying that your son’s wife is/was jealous of you and his relationship is very different to saying that your son is in a controlling and coercive relationship punishable under Section 76 of the Serious Crime Act 2015.

There's plenty of evidence to substantiate our belief, all of which I've posted about here on GN over the years

No, there really isn’t. No evidence whatsoever from you of your son being in a controlling and coercive relationship punishable under Section 76 of the Serious Crime Act 2015, described by The Crown Prosecution Service as follows:

• Coercive behaviour is an act or a pattern of acts of assault, threats, humiliation and intimidation or other abuse that is used to harm, punish, or frighten their victim.

• Controlling behaviour is a range of acts designed to make a person subordinate and/or dependent by isolating them from sources of support, exploiting their resources and capacities for personal gain, depriving them of the means needed for independence, resistance and escape and regulating their everyday behaviour.

Again, it would take much more than your son ending his relationship with you on the grounds of issues from his childhood and your apparent bad treatment of him and his wife, for such a relationship to be considered controlling or coercive and punishable under the above Act. Do you have concerns or evidence of any of the following, for example:

• Deprivation of basic needs, such as food.
• Monitoring his time.
• Monitoring him via online communication tools or spyware.
• Taking control over aspects of his everyday life, such as where he can go, who he can see, what he can wear and when he can sleep.
• Depriving him access to support services, such as medical services.
• Repeatedly putting him down, such as saying he is worthless.
• Humiliating, degrading or dehumanising him.
• Controlling his finances.
• Making threats or intimidating him.

Yes, of course we worry about our son's and GC's welfare but there's nothing we can about it which is why we're 'out'; to make sure we can't do anything

Yes, there absolutely is. If your son is in a controlling and coercive relationship punishable under Section 76 of the Serious Crime Act 2015 then he and his children are in an extremely dangerous situation and I would ask why you have not contacted the police and/or social services. What would you have to lose, you don’t have a relationship with him anyway. Your actions could offer him a way out and to safety, for both him and your grandchildren.

This is an extremely serious allegation to make Smileless and I would ask you again, what other factors make you believe your son is in such a relationship?

I've read this thread with great interest and its obvious that its a 'sore' point with so many and thats understandable.
I'm not an educated woman, I am not agressive, demanding or looking to put 100% blame on anyone...all I can say is that I had a very good relationship with my daughter until she was 18, she was attending college after doing A levels and met her now husband. I didnt realise at first that bit by bit she stopped having time for food at home, boyfriend was always taking her out somewhere to eat and it came eventually to be that ALL her 'spare' time was spent with him.
On the rare occasion she was at home he would continually phone/text her wanting to know what she was doing etc. He made sure that she was rarely at home other than to sleep.
I have to stop for now if you want more info. feel free to ask. Sorry for rambling on......Ive not told anyone this before.