The 'Perception Filter'...

MotherOfDragons I remember reading that too. It's horrifying

Madgran, so there's always been a global balance that could be easily observed, it's never been in a position of better or worse as a result of prior generational behavior-

The More Loving One
W. H. Auden - 1907-1973

Looking up at the stars, I know quite well
That, for all they care, I can go to hell,
But on earth indifference is the least
We have to dread from man or beast.

How should we like it were stars to burn
With a passion for us we could not return?
If equal affection cannot be,
Let the more loving one be me.

Admirer as I think I am
Of stars that do not give a damn,
I cannot, now I see them, say
I missed one terribly all day.

Were all stars to disappear or die,
I should learn to look at an empty sky
And feel its total dark sublime,
Though this might take me a little time.

Her reasoning for her estrangement goes something like this: her son cried too much as a baby, so she was always tired and therefore took care of the baby less, and as a result of this extra independence, he was too comfortable being alone and thus had no remorse about abandoning his family.

So, essentially, it was her son’s fault. He, and his crying, is the reason she wasn’t able to care for him as much as a baby. She DID NOTHING WRONG.

I’m not sure what disturbed me more about Sheri McGregor’s Done with the Crying. The fact that she made no effort or attempt whatsoever to mend or repair relations with her son and his wife, or that she recommends shopping for therapists until someone takes you at your word that you DID NOTHING WRONG!

A very selfish, self serving comment Smileless. Shame you cannot see that and the issues it causes for others around you.

Smileless -- I don't comment on a video or article or anything else unless I've watched it/read it. Can you say the same?

So you have read the book I referred too earlier on this thread HolyHannah. That was all I wanted to know.

I didn't reverse your statement Starblaze, I commented on it.

HolyHannah that video has been posted on here before and was met with the same response. I think it may have been on a thread which has since been deleted. I will have a search.

I noticed, however, that it only took a few hours of you mentioning the video before the attempts to discredit the speaker were made. I’m sure some here could see that coming and can relate only too well to what we say being discredited before we have even said it. Even one’s method of delivery is used as a tool to devalue what they have to say.

It's a clear example of someone pursuing their own agenda of attacking EP's because of their personal experiences

This is why it is dangerous to assign intent to someone. Not only is that quite an assumption to make, but it is wrong. And again, a statement based on no evidence.

The speaker has thousands of videos ranging from abusive parents, abusive spouses, abusive adult children, abusive employers, communities, churches and even where he percieves the writer themselves to be abusive. He doesn’t care who the abuser is, it makes no difference to what he has to say. To say he has an agenda against estranged parents is untrue and only serves to undermine what he has to say.

Smileless -- Apples to oranges AGAIN. The difference is, I READ what people like Sharon and Sheri M. have to say and THEN decided I disagreed with them. You judge without reading or listening to what people actually say.

There is no need to reverse my statements Smileless especially when I have very carefully stated my point to be about abused children. It detracts from my point and makes a statement about abused children about you. Its just not OK and you need to stop doing that. I really am surprised I need to keep explaining that to you. Its almost as if you are trying to upset me and ignore my awful situation by putting your own awful situation over mine instead of leaving it as the seperate, different situation it is.

I didn't realise you'd read Sharon Ann Wildey's book that I referred to on this thread earlier HolyHannah 'Abandoned Parents: the Devils dilemma'. I'm assuming you have done as you wouldn't criticise me for judging a video and the person it featured without watching it, if you've judged a book and the author without reading it.

As I said, what little I listened too was enough for me.

I wish there was a way I could have this guy yell at my mum the way I never could

Would it make any difference?

I've not caused her a 10th of the pain she caused me

Would causing her pain help you in anyway or help her to understand and/or recognise the pain she's caused you?

Anyone who refuses to see and understand the reason why children like me are walking away, won't see it because they are doing it themselves and have done it to their children

I'm sure you're right Starblaze when it comes to EAC's experiences that are like yours but not all AC estrange for those reasons.

I finished and I actually found that very empowering.

Huge amounts of children in my generation have been abused. No one wants to admit that but it's the truth. Now things were different back then, the norms were different but not every parent whose child comes to them and says "I've been damaged" is denying it. The problem is the ones that are.

What are you supposed to say as a parent? "I'm so sorry, I love you, let's fix it" or "You are just in a no contact cult and reading from a script and I was great"

How can parents like my mum truly say they love us when they didn't love us enough to stop abusing us. To let us grow up and become our own people. To let us make decisions about what sort of behaviour we are willing to tolerate. To be ourselves and when we don't fit their mould. To live by our rules and values not theirs.

My mum would never watch this video, she would have excuses and look for reasons not to watch it. Actually she would probably spend more time looking for reasons and excuses not to watch it than it would take to actually watch it.

I took a gentle approach with my mum, I tried very hard to make the relationship positive and good. Then I tried telling her how she was hurting me and that if it didn't stop, there would be no more relationship. Finally I cut her off. She was hurting me, I was no longer willing to stand there while another repeatedly caused me pain.

I wish there was a way to have this guy yell at my mum the way I never could. I've not caused her a 10th of the pain she caused me. Maybe not a 20th.

Estranging was not me causing her pain, it is pain she caused herself.

My mum had all the chances she ever needed to make it right.

Everything he said about that thread is absolutely spot on and people need to understand the real reasons why people are losing their kids. The clues are all there.

Anyone who refuses to see and understand the reason why children like me are walking away, won't see it because they are doing it themselves and have done it to their children.

I agree too but when abusive, aggressive and inflammatory language is used for me, it detracts from the issue; there's a big difference IMO between an abrasive presentation and an abusive and aggressive one.

Not being interested in what someone I regard as abusive and aggressive has to say on a particular subject, doesn't mean I'm dismissive of the subject.

In my experience, those whose rhetoric is aggressive, insulting and bullying have the least to offer.

It doesn't matter how the topic is presented, abrasively or gently, it isn't going to lead to meaningful discussion with anyone who continually dismisses the subject-

I agree rosecarmel

Madgran, would the state of the world be what it is today if prior generation"S" truly cared?

There is bad and good in the world today just as there has always been. There is bad and good in every generation just as there has always been.

I'm not sure why you are asking me though as my question was just if anyone has found a link to any statistical research on his comment re baby boomers.

Has anyone? I am interested to read it if there is a link available.

Madgran, would the state of the world be what it is today if prior generation"S" truly cared?

It doesn't matter how the topic is presented, abrasively or gently, it isn't going to lead to meaningful discussion with anyone who continually dismisses the subject-

What people like Ollie Mathew's have to say is of no interest to me. Anything of any importance, that may be helpful or useful in a discussion about estrangement is lost when aggressive and abusive language such as "narcissistic toxic scumbags" is used.

It's a clear example of someone pursuing their own agenda of attacking EP's because of their personal experiences.

Presumably one of his 'sources' was the thread that was here on GN Madgran 'the brainwashing behind going non contact' as that was the backdrop to his video. That said there weren't any "narcissistic toxic scumbags" on that thread, just EP's and EGP's sharing their pain and experiences.

I have listened to the video. I am wondering where his research sources are in terms of statistics for statements such as "a large percentage of you are narcissistic toxic scumbags" referring to "baby boomers" as a generation. I understand that from his work he will have access to many many examples of toxic, abusive parents but I dont understand how that can translate to "a large percentage" of an entire generation ...presumably across the world.

Does anyone know if he gives sources for that data ...I couldnt find any details but I know I have a tendency to miss links in videos etc if they aren't staring me in the face (or even if they are sometimes!! ?)

Smileless -- When I made my comment to Starblaze I thought she had found the correct video. As for Ollie's other attitudes, I have read the Reddit post and I am aware that he has his detractors and I don't agree with his politics. That doesn't mean he can't be right on the subject of Narcissism.

Is it the whole, "If I disagree with what they have to say on one subject I will disagree/dismiss everything they say." mentality? Your ad hominem attack on him as a person and not what he said in that particular video, is exactly what the video is about.

So yeah, I do not agree with what he says at times on other subjects, but if it's a popularity contest? He seems to have way more lovers then haters. And I'm not American and my country has its own issues, so I'll not compare how he feels to how I feel or make judgments on him based on that.

P.S. The part I was talking about was around 10 minutes in... It's talking about the reasons that parents say they are estranged that WE have never heard but many EP's roll out as 'truths'.

Since you posted a screenshot and introduced the content, in order to prevent further confusion:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KdJZvHUfag

The recommended videos are like two different dialects discussing the same related subjects, I can appreciate both-

Some people would look at my sibling and consider them to have "gotten over it", practical and productive- Rose above it-

On the surface-

Beneath the surface?

Cunning, controlling, calculating, "planner in advance", as in intent to manipulate-

They're only "getting over" on themselves-