I find articles like this quite helpful.

I have just read the article again. Something that really stood out for me relates to someone I know well who I have to work very hard to maintain a relationship with because I find some of her behaviours very hard to understand. She has described several of these behaviours to me in relation to her parents, and in particular in relation to her mother. Food for thought for me in my ongoing relationship with her as I think those behaviours are impacting on how she conducts her relationship with me and with other women who are around her mother's age. And I don't think she necessarily realises the impact.

Madgran -- A Unicorn remains what it always has been - any parent, estranged or not, that takes accountability for their actions/behaviors and understand that those things can/do damage their children.

Ok thanks. Trouble is Unicorn means mythical creature to me...if you have explained before and I have forgotten I apologise!

Starblaze -- Same I think maybe 4 or 5 for me.

Smileless -- You just admitted that your son is not abusive and never was. That's a good first step. Him walking away is not abuse. And by your own words his 'abuse' toward You "didn't start" until after he estranged. So other then cutting you out of his life he has done nothing to you.

Holyhannah Parish Miller is amazing... Actually the best description of my mum. I think all but 3 applied for me

I'm not doubting that Starblaze and I agree as the article states that they can be due to emotionally abusive parents.

We'll have to disagree on that one. When our son estranged us and prevented us from seeing our GC it was the beginning of his abuse toward us, not an end to abuse because prior to that there had been no abuse.

As for GC as you say another matter entirely. Missing and wishing we could see our GC to be there for them doing the things that GP's do, is an expression of our concern for them.

Starblaze -- I know this has been posted before but my Doc gave this to me and as 'homework' asked me to go through the list point by point and see how many stories I could tell that related to each one.

Precisely one novel and a short sequel's worth of writing later, I viewed the world a lot differently. Obviously I only shared that with my Doc and did not send it to my 'mom', but getting all the stories that no one would believe 'out' was one of the hardest and most rewarding challenges I faced in recovery.

Every petty and spiteful meanness etc. that my 'mom' did was for a "reason" and I wasn't 'imagining' those things. He read what I wrote and validated that the 'little kid in me' had been seeing things "unfiltered" and that was why I was the Scapegoat.

parrishmiller.com/narcissists.html

Estranging I agree is not abuse, its an end to abuse whoever is doing it.

Silent treatment I agree is abuse, because it is not estrangement, it is ignoring for periods of time to cause pain and then coming back and causing more pain in a different way etc

The grandchildren are another matter entirely and my concern always goes to them as children before anyone else (sorry).

The article didn't say that Smileless that was my interpretation but I can confirm those are emotionally abusive behaviours from the professional help I did get. They aren't the out there nasty obvious stuff but they are wrong and they do mess you up.

How can you possibly "promise that violent abuse never occurred between a No Contact AC and their parent" HolyHannah? You don't have to have a relationship with someone in order to abuse them.

An AC refusing to have a relationship with their parents and disallowing a relationship with GC is in some cases abusive.
Of course you'll disagree but you haven't experienced that form of abuse have you.

I haven't said that "what you have to say is not important". "Asking parents to take accountability" and only taking on board what's said by those that you consider having done so is IMO EP bashing.

Yes, there are parents who should take accountability and there are EAC who should take accountability too.

Smileless -- If you read what Sharon is spouting she says the ACT of estranging is "practicing hate" and is "violent abuse" against the parent AND the estranging child's own family.

How can the act of WALKING AWAY be considered in any way "violent"??? This woman has 3 ex-husbands, 4 estranged children and a broken engagement where she sued the bailing groom and a 'friend' who tried to assist her in that case.

She is clearly not 'in tune' with what a healthy relationship looks like and her spouting that estranging AC are being "violently abusive" by walking away shows her dysfunctional beliefs off perfectly.

"Your constant EP bashing is tiresome; why do you feel the need to constantly refer to the EP's whose opinions you disagree with or refuse to believe as 'unicorns'? It's childish and for me disrupts rather than assists the discussion."

Asking parents to take accountability is not 'parent bashing'. And there's the 'childish' line again! LOL And as a bonus -- The old "what you have to say is not important" theme.

I don't doubt that some EP's have experienced abuse from their AC but I promise that any "violent abuse" never occurred between a No Contact AC and their parent. No one can abuse anyone they have no relationship with -- that is where I object with Sharon W.

The article you provided a link too is about particular life experiences that may or may not be attributed to emotionally abusive parents Starblaze.

Which is why the article quite rightly states "don't let this article determine for certain, get professional support". Presumably so an AC wont automatically think they had emotionally abusive parents when that wont necessarily be the case.

Madgran -- A Unicorn remains what it always has been - any parent, estranged or not, that takes accountability for their actions/behaviors and understand that those things can/do damage their children.

In her case she actually admitted and used the word abusive. So she's kind of a 'Super Unicorn'.

To her I would say, "Wow. It must have taken a lot of work and self-reflection to get to the point where you can admit that. You are on the right track to have a healthier future relationship with your off-spring. Inner strength is accepting all of you, good and bad and not blindly clinging to one 'side' while being in utter denial of the other. If more parents were like you, there would be no 'epidemic of estrangement' and real healing could begin. You have the strength to admit your faults and that is something most children who estrange never hear from their own parents."

Holy Hannah I read the comment in the link you shared. The adult parent appears to be taking full responsibility for her parenting.

I am unclear what you mean by "I found another Unicorn?" What does Unicorn mean in this context please?

I found that a well written, very interesting and informative article Starblaze. Thankyou.

My article is about emotionally abusive parents Smileless. Just using words like May or Might is simple language designed to say "don't let this article determine for certain, get professional support" because an article isn't enough on its own.

These are all expert endorsed signs of emotional abuse for anyone worried they have experienced it. What the reader then does with that information is up to them.

By the time people are reading articles like that, the damage has already been done but not necessarily by abusive parents HolyHannah, as the article quite clearly points out.

"As you can see, there are several signs that may indicate you had an emotionally abusive parent"; it isn't a given.

Some EP's experience of the way they've been treated is that their AC are "practising hate" and have experienced "violent abuse". Who are you to say that either of those is untrue? How would you feel if that was how the experiences of all abused EAC were viewed by all EP's?

Your constant EP bashing is tiresome; why do you feel the need to constantly refer to the EP's whose opinions you disagree with or refuse to believe as 'unicorns'? It's childish and for me disrupts rather than assists the discussion.

Starblaze -- She nailed it with the "And always, always, we are ashamed." -- As I have said before child abusers SHOULD feel ashamed. They are THE WORST form of abuser. Being an abuser is bad enough but to do so to innocent children whom you were supposed to be PROTECTING from abuse is as low as it gets.

Until the parent/abuser is able to see what they are they can't change. It's interesting that upon her honest reflection of her behavior that her AC did forgive her.

I know that if my 'mom' came forward with awareness like that AND a sincere acknowledgement of the damage her behavior caused, something might change.

I think parents like her do have a chance because with acknowledgment of the shame, the weight begins to lift. I know for me when I dumped my personal shame over existing, I began to feel like spreading my butterfly wings.

Oh bless her heart, I hope she can find a way to forgive herself and enjoy her children

Starblaze -- I found another unicorn! Read the comment on this article...

momsfightback.org/asking-the-toughest-question-am-i-an-abusive-parent/

Articles like that do "more harm then good"... It can cause "a rift" between parent and child? By the time people are reading articles like that, the damage has already been done. To the child...

It's funny how some question articles like that and yet when someone like Sharon W. calls estranging from your parents "practicing hate" and it is "violent abuse" (neither of which is true)? Nothing.

Actually, I have no interest in gardening, being rubbish at gardening if I wanted to do it would be a good reason to read articles on it lol

Truly, I am rubbish at gardening so I don't read articles about gardening. I think people only read articles like this if there are existing problems. Generationally speaking though, we have now learnt huge amounts that while they don't necessarily make us "bad" or "unloving" may have negatively impacted our children.

I skimmed through the article and some of it rings true as my dad was an emotional bully. It certainly helps to explain his behaviour.

Thanks for the link Starblze.

I found it overall an interesting and well written article primarily because the article was not saying that the 15 points referred to are indicative of an abusive childhood.

The article ends with "As you can see, there are several signs that may indicate you had an emotionally abusive parent".

Repeated phrases such as "may be because of", "can be due to" and in relation to point 15 'being in a toxic relationship' "if we come ...." and "we tend too ....".

Having said the aforementioned, I can understand your reaction Wibby, that it "can cause more harm than good! it can cause a rift between parent and child". That said, as long as it's read with all the information taken on board, that these behaviours may be an indication that someone had an emotionally abusive parent, hopefully that wont be the case.

The rift is there with or without articles like this I'm afraid, just explains why the rift exists I would say this article explains why the rift might exist.