Is 'No Contact' abuse?

Bibbity wrote:

Abuse would be. You’re never talking to us again. Then a string of harassment. Then saying you can see us if you do XYZ. Give us XYZ.

That's exactly what my DH's daughter did to us. Emails, fb messages all unsolicited from her mothers friends. These people were not on our FB as friends, they had been given email addresses and fb details by either SD or her mother. We had to make a police report. THAT'S abuse.
If a person decides to cut another out of their life there's usually a reason. It's not abuse to do that.

Norah Just to say that the last comment you quoted and said was Brilliant was not mine.

Smileless made that comment.

Allsorts "This has turned into a point scoring thread"

I believe that posters are writing their definition and telling their own circumstance for feeling as they feel.

Madgram77 "No one is doubting No Contact is a term used as you've described by people ending a relationship with an abusive person. All some of us are saying is that it is also used when the person being estranged is not abusive and is not the only term used by those who are ending a relationship with an abusive person.

Brilliant

I think if we are not going to come together in an effort to listen to each others feelings by using different terms to describe different reasons for estrangement. Then I shouldn't feel the need to worry too much when expressing my opinions either. It has been made very clear to me that is my right and as I should not be offended, neither should others.

I can by the same logic, just, as other posters have said, say I don't honestly see how the simple act of leaving a relationship is, of itself, an abusive act.

Although I do understand that having been estranged by close family myself, it can be incredibly painful and I do have empathy for anyone impacted in the same way.

Thank you for empowering me to say what I think more openly.

Allsorts, " For all you d husbands to cut of contact says a lot about your daughters, no one can think it right that all d married men with dreadful families, you seem to think it’s absolutely normal, no further comments required"

It's not mine to wonder why my Daughters husbands are estranged to their family. Not all of them estranged while married. I would be of the mind that estrangement by my Daughters husbands has nothing to do with me or my Daughters. Opinions. of course you may view estrangement as you see fit.

Well our estrangement is most definitely rooted in envy by our ES's wife Allsorts; thank you .

This has turned into a point scoring thread

I am not sure it is point scoring All Sorts More continuously trying to explain that each poster is allowed to express their views, use phrases that help them express their perspective whilst still empathising with others who feel differently about a phrase or experience. It was not my intention to score points and I am sorry if that is how it came over.

Your post @ 13.56 is the correct interpretation of what I am saying on this thread and have from time to time, when it's been relevant to the discussion, been saying for 8 years Madgran.

TBF Violetsky I have previously explained to you that on this thread here on GN in particular, as well as other on line sites I have participated on over the years, estrangement, no contact and/or non contact have all been used by both EP's, EGP's, estranging AC and others who have estranged members of their family.

As Madgran has posted "it is a term that will be used regularly on different estrangement threads, in different contexts and meaning different things to different people".

I don't see what appealing "to someone's better nature" has to do with it, or why the more generally accepted 'meaning' of no contact is so offensive to you.

No one is doubting No Contact is a term used as you've described by people ending a relationship with an abusive person. All some of us are saying is that it is also used when the person being estranged is not abusive and is not the only term used by those who are ending a relationship with an abusive person.

This has turned into a point scoring thread. The way Smileless was treated was abusive. Suddenly losing her much loved son and grandson with no explanation or discussion. Every situation is different, and you need to recognise that,
Norah, your comments I feel are very hard. For all you d husbands to cut of contact says a lot about your daughters, no one can think it right that all d married men with dreadful families, you seem to think it’s absolutely normal, no further comments required. The least an ac can do is discuss it, or at least say we have decided we don’t want you in our lives because of …. Respect. Most of these estrangemts are rooted in envy, by the partners.

No, I will just have to remember that, in certain places that are new to me, if I can't appeal to someone's better nature that's a reflection of them and not my problem

You will presumably still have to prepare yourself for seeing the phrase used in a context that means something different to someone else. And to be honest, although someone can empathise with someone else's feelings/perspective/understanding about a phrase, I do not think that means that it must become a "phrase non grata" on any thread or forum! I do not think that is to do with "better nature", it is just a fact that the phrase means different things to different people in different contexts and may be the phrase that they need to use to express their experience/perspective/feelings on a thread., without meaning to upset anyone and without knowing about the "No Contact" context that you described. The very nature of the title of this thread created this discussion. No explanation was given regarding "No Contact" as opposed to "no contact".

Anyway, hope you don't find its use by others who have no idea of the difference , who need to use that phrase in their own context in their own way, too upsetting.

No, I will just have to remember that, in certain places that are new to me, if I can't appeal to someone's better nature that's a reflection of them and not my problem.

I imagine it is a term that will be used regularly on different estrangement threads, in different contexts and meaning different things to different people ...not necessarily as a term used by victims of abuse to describe how to end a relationship with an abusive person. It is also a term used by experts and therapists to describe ending a relationship with an abusive person ...so you may like to prepare yourself for that if you wish to join estrangement discussions

When it comes to that particular term, I just want you to know how I feel.

There are a range of participants and discussion and differing opinions doesn't mean anyone is unwelcome!

It's always good to educate ourselves and grow, especially in a forum that welcomes (as far as I could tell when I joined) a range of participants.

But how is it? He did not want a relationship. He ended it. And has continued to live his life. So he must have a relationship or be deemed abusive

No! My understanding is that the circumstances of the no contact coming about, were abusive. But I will leave this now as I cannot speak for Smileless, it is her experience and perspective, not mine. .

No Contact with capital letters is clearly a phrase used in the context that you describe Violetsky as a term used by victims of abuse to describe how to end a relationship with an abusive person. It is also a term used by experts and therapists to describe ending a relationship with an abusive person

I think that many posters will have read it as a straight meaning of "no contact" as in "* has no contact with *" rather than as you have described/quoted above.

I truly don't think anyone is trying to invalidate abuse victims of any kind, people are coming at the question in the OP with different understanding of "No Contact" and "no contact"

Thankyou for the quote.

No Contact does not have the same meaning, it is a term used by victims of abuse to describe how to end a relationship with an abusive person. It is also a term used by experts and therapists to describe ending a relationship with an abusive person.

Searching the term on the Internet comes up with the answer I am giving.

Opinions about the meanings of terms are not facts I am afraid.

Asserting that No Contact is sometimes abusive invalidates abuse victims of any kind, not just AEC as we are called here but husbands, wives and even parents who have been abused by their own children.

It does not invalidate people who feel abused by their adult children.

Madgram77 "A view is being expressed by some posters in answer to the original question that in SOME circumstances no contact is NOT abusive but that in other circumstances it MIGHT BE/IS abusive. Expressing an opinion is not accusing anyone with a different experience of anything!"

I think Madgram is correct. Though many would not see a simple cut away as abusive, some do, they are entitled to their opinions. I believe people aren't forever tied to others, or there wouldn't be divorce. I don't want to be in a relationship where the other doesn't want me. But, opinions may differ.

But how is it? He did not want a relationship. He ended it. And has continued to live his life. So he must have a relationship or be deemed abusive.

But you are literally saying that your son has abused you but solely ending a relationship with you.

As far as I understand from reading Smileless comments, she is saying that in the particular circumstances of going no contact employed by her son, it was abusive. ...not that going no contact per se is abusive. Apologies if I have got that wrong Smileless

So please explain how people are being accused of being abusing solely because they have cut contact. No other examples given

Individuals are not "being accused"!

A view is being expressed by some posters in answer to the original question that in SOME circumstances no contact is NOT abusive but that in other circumstances it MIGHT BE/IS abusive. Expressing an opinion is not accusing anyone with a different experience of anything!

I know what it feels like to be given the silent treatment. If I objected to something my mother said or didand I wouldn't let her simply ignore what I was trying to say, her first step was to deny it. If I didn't back down her second step was to assert that if that happened, I deserved it for whatever reason. If I still did not back down her next step was to inform me that I was oversensitive and everyone agrees that I am a horrible daughter. If I still did not back down, I would be told I had hurt her too much and then get the silent treatment.

Of course I would be hurt and upset and try to reach out, tell her I loved her and wanted to fix things, I would be racking my brain thinking it must be me and I must have done something terrible for my own mother to give me the silent treatment.

Eventually she would send a nice message like nothing happened. I would be so relieved I would just let it all go.

There is a vast difference between abuse tactics like silent treatment and going No Contact to protect yourself from an abusive person. There is no crossover at all.

But you are literally saying that your son has abused you but solely ending a relationship with you.