Is 'No Contact' abuse?

Madgran77

*Considering how serious child abuse is, it’s continually appalling to me that there are folks who honestly suggest that non-abusive parents ending contact with unpleasant relatives can ever be ‘abuse’.*

The assumption above is that they are "unpleasant!" I have seen noone suggest that contact should continue with a child abuser by the way (unsurprisingly!)

And how significant for that assumption to be followed by a poster giving a "grandchilds" adult perspective, including a recognition that it could have been caused by a "difficult" personality. ( so sad for you nanna8)

Who knows ...but assumptions should NOT be made, every story is different!

I think it comes down to each individual’s understanding of abuse.

I read a comment on another thread last night (I can’t remember what it said exactly, so I’m just surmising) suggesting that if a grandparent can’t stop themselves speaking about a child’s parents in a negative way to the child, then contact between the grandparent and child should always be supervised.

To me, that comes under the umbrella of emotional abuse. So why is contact in that situation being encouraged to continue?

nanna8

No 'right' answer here because it clearly depends on the circumstances surrounding the rejection of contact. I was kept away from one of my set of grandparents from about the age of 10 and I had no idea why. It was so sad to meet them again just before we emigrated to realise how many years I had lost and they died soon after we left the UK. I still feel sad about it to this day. My Mum could be very difficult at times so knowing her, she probably misinterpreted a comment or something.

Same situation here. My parents never spoke about it. However, when I eventually met my paternal grandmother as an adult, I quickly understood.

She was incredibly critical, interfering and always had to be right. She spoke horribly about everyone, and there would often be the odd racist remark thrown in.

I’m glad I didn’t grow up exposed to that kind of behaviour, thinking it was normal or something to be tolerated, like my cousins did.

I truly believe I’m a much healthier person for it.

GG65 I take your point. But my comment was more about the assumption of unpleasantness . My aside comment did also make a comment about child abuse, and yes you are right that this might be emotional rather than physical abuse. Biut when a story is told, I don't think it should be assumed that either has taken place. It may have, it may not, it is not a given in estrangement

No matter how conscientious you may have been as a parent you can still end up with an adult child who chooses to have nothing to do with you.

Ruminating over the fact that they chose to have nothing to do with you could be viewed as self abuse.

There is nothing conscientious about that habit.

Ruminating over the fact that they chose to have nothing to do with you could be viewed as self abuse

It could also be viewed as:

* trying to understand ..or
* trying to take responsibility and learn from their choice..or
* trying to reach acceptance and move forward from a situation one never expected to be in ..or
* trying to come to a point of peace over their choice

or .... many many more !!

You've taken what I posted else where out of context GG65. I suggested it could be one way of managing a particular situation, and was a strategy that Mr. S. and myself adopted with my m.i.l., and resent the implication that we would ever have subjected our children to emotional abuse.

Our boys were, and our DS remains, particularly close to his paternal GM and that was not a relationship we were prepared to destroy if there was a safe way of maintaining it.

Your post @ 15.23 is spot on Madgran. Any loving parent is going to struggle to come to terms with the fact that the child they love no longer wants them in their lives. The pain is bad enough; EP's don't need to "ruminate" to increase the level of abuse they're experiencing.

It's interesting to see a post that likens the difficulty of coming to terms with being estranged by one's own child as "self abuse". I've never seen one directed to EAC who talk about their sad and abusive childhoods being accused of "self abuse" by "ruminating over the fact that" they chose to estrange their parents.

EAC or EP. Anyone could end up dwelling. And then eventually depressed. Spinning their wheels.

Plenty of EAC make the move from engaging in a relationship with their parents to estranging their parents only to get stuck and dwell on the fact that they have.

Some just keep going once gone.

Plenty of EAC make the move from engaging in a relationship with their parents to estranging their parents only to get stuck and dwell on the fact that they have

Yes and they need help to work through that and move on. And again, the reasons they do that are numerous

Smileless2012

You've taken what I posted else where out of context GG65. I suggested it could be one way of managing a particular situation, and was a strategy that Mr. S. and myself adopted with my m.i.l., and resent the implication that we would ever have subjected our children to emotional abuse.

Our boys were, and our DS remains, particularly close to his paternal GM and that was not a relationship we were prepared to destroy if there was a safe way of maintaining it.

Your post @ 15.23 is spot on Madgran. Any loving parent is going to struggle to come to terms with the fact that the child they love no longer wants them in their lives. The pain is bad enough; EP's don't need to "ruminate" to increase the level of abuse they're experiencing.

It's interesting to see a post that likens the difficulty of coming to terms with being estranged by one's own child as "self abuse". I've never seen one directed to EAC who talk about their sad and abusive childhoods being accused of "self abuse" by "ruminating over the fact that" they chose to estrange their parents.

I’m confused Smileless, because I haven’t implied anything. Supervising contact between a child and an abusive type is wildly different from allowing your child to be emotionally abused. I don’t understand how you have made that connection?

Also, I thought you were just making a general comment, I didn’t realise you were discussing your own situation.

I do think that maintaining the relationship allows children to believe that the person is “safe” however.

Anyway, that was your decision to make as your child’s parent, just as another parent may decide not to maintain the relationship. Neither is wrong and either decision would have been made by the parents taking into consideration the best interests of their child.

I made that connection GG because you posted "To me, that comes under the umbrella of emotional abuse. So why is contact in that situation being encouraged to continue?" You put this directly after referring to a post of mine on another thread on GN.

In response to the original question, no, of course going no contact is not abuse.

Everyone has the right to choose who to have in their life. Furthermore, parents have the right- and responsibility- to decide who to allow around their minor children.

That doesn't mean it doesn't hurt. Being estranged hurts and so does feeling so much pain with a close family member that you feel the need to get away from them.

Abuse is to use (something) to bad effect or for a bad purpose so, if you estrange your parents and take away their GC for any reason other than they are themselves abusive, it is abuse.

No it's not but I hope you will not be Smileless for too much longer.

Thank you BlueberryPie but I'm sure we always will be and although the pain will never go away, we've made a good, happy and peaceful life without him, and I doubt I would ever feel safe if he came back into our lives.

Yes Agnurse , you are right to walk away. I just have with relatives, who tell lies all the time, their gc are abused, verbally , physically, and the kids are manipulated. Even though, ss came in to help, their help was refused. The abuser is going to hell in a hand cart eventually. But why, granparents stay silent and do not tackle the abusive behaviour is lost on me. I now sleep at night, now that I decided no contact. It's sad, but ss should have sorted out that b.... some years ago.

"But why, grandparents stay silent and do not tackle the abusive behaviour is lost on me" are you referring to GP's ignoring the abuse their GC are suffering User7777?

User 7777 I do not understand your comments regarding grandparents? Presumably you feel the same about others who "keep silent"?

Madgran. I was thinking of one set of granparents among my relatives who stay silent on the issue of their gran kids. Not gran parents in general. These granparents are frightened of the kids father. Too many people stay silent, and when one incident happens, and becomes known, the kids may have suffered a long time

User777 you seem to be replying to Agnurse. But I have looked back a few pages and came see any from her.

Also Smiles was the last to post on this thread but that was 17th May.

What prompted you to reply today?

Can't see any from her. Not came.

You seem to have answered your own question User777 "These grandparents are frightened of the kids father". I agree that too many people stay silent and fear is often the reason. Fear of a partner can leave a mother unable to protect her own children from abuse.

Message deleted by Gransnet for breaking our forum guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Me and DH ex Husband and his wife plus wider fams on both sides of #2DS had ok relationship with him and partner all through their Time in university and they even lived with me and my DH for 4 months after graduated.long tale short? After years of ghosting/friends etc with me as the whim took 'her' .when #2child born #3 was due at same time as #1 GS due to start school so sudden befriending and offers to let both DGC visit regularly which crept up to 3days/week! 6 months after #3DG born, 'she' made up scenario that I had shouted at her and bullied her in her own house (!?!?!) Truth was we were both Ill with chest infections and#1&2GC had chicken pox.'she' asked us to come over early one day as she had hospital appt. So we rushed up early and when we arrived she said appt had been cancelled night before! I suggested that we leave having GC as we and they were all Ill and not up to it, well! She exploded at me and I backed down and took GC but they were sleeping all time as were we in turns and we eventually had to take them home at4pm as we could no longer tend to them safely. That was in 2017.from that day to this they have not spoken or responded or contacted us since! Apparently via my #1DS GC are missing us terribly but subject changed when they ask about us and where we are? All presents chucked away or given to charity shops unopened! I am utterly bereft and mostly struggle to see any point to continuing to exist as I make no new memories and have ZERO to look forward to any more. Contact is cut .final.permanently. try mending THAT one! My #1DS is too scared that he too will be banished if he tries to help mend rift, such is 'her' control and fury!! My ex also has nil contact except when they want cars fixing (he owns garage) fancy that?

Your GC are missing you "terribly"; an example for me that no contact is in some cases abuse Gabrielle.

I'm so very sorry that your estrangement has left you struggling "to see any point in continuing to exist". I'm a little confused by your post, do you have a H and an ex? If so, you have a husband and I think another son to make memories with, with all the things you can do that wont include the son and GC you're estranged from.

I apologise if I've got this wrong.

We've been estranged from our youngest son and only GC for more than 8.5 years. Our other son lives in Aus. so the geographical distance between us makes the loss of his brother very hard to deal with, but deal with it we do and although time doesn't heal, I have found that it does help to blunt the sharpness of the pain that estrangement causes.

"Contact is cut, final, permanently" for you as it us for us. It cannot be mended by us and for me, it was the acknowledgement and acceptance of that terrible realisation, that got me on the right path to rebuilding my life.

I hope that you'll be able to begin the process of rebuilding yours too.

I get emails from my mum trying to rewrite history and saying that my boys only know what I tell them about her and that they have been turned against her. I think she truly believes what she is saying but they want nothing to do with her and they do have memories of what she is like. So either one of us could look like a liar from the outside but I have less reason too as I am the one who walked away. Its only because there are grandchildren involved she has an excuse to look like she has been rejected unfairly and that I am abusing her and them. That's not right really is it that she gets to use that to tell people I am abusive. My boys make their own choices yet I don't think she would accept it even if she heard it from them. I think we need to let parents do what is right for their children unless there is clear abuse because that should be reported. If someone is using estrangement to abuse thier children I don't think that is the only way they would be being abused. So I just can't see that estrangement is abusive on its own towards parents or grandparents unless there are other abuses as well. I know some might not agree with me and I'm sorry about that. I hope that you will find some peace and understanding one day why it can't be abuse or you make those who were victims growing up victims to unkind words again.