Is 'No Contact' abuse?

Madgran77 do you mean that their child has actively said "I am going No Contact with you"?

Regardless, in an ideal world I would really love that term to be used solely as a term to describe having no choice but to cease contact with an abusive person by people who are forced to seek no contact with family, ex partners or even ex friends and work colleagues due to abusive behaviour. I obviously have no control over how others use the term sadly as I said above.

Generally I've seen the term "No Contact" used by those who estrange an abusive person

On this site I have seen it used many times by people who have been estranged by their child/mother and have not had an explanation, sometimes just after a positive experience with their child/parent.

Yes there are also some who have estranged from an abusive person but that is not the "general" situation. Every case of estrangement is different!!

Holyhannah Generally I've seen the term "No Contact" used by those who estrange an abusive person. So in that case no, going no contact with an abuser is never abusive and I'm glad to see that repeated often here.

I agree with the sentiment that you can't abuse someone you have gone no contact with.

However it is a term that can be misused and misinterpreted. The same as any term.

In my specific situation, I did not withhold myself or my children from a relationship with my mother to hurt or punish or until I got my own way with something. I did it to protect myself and my family from further harm and I did it after I had made every possible attempt to mend the relationship.

Sometimes people do go in and out of "No Contact" and that doesn't make them abusive either if they have been doing so to protect themselves. It can be hard for people when there is so much shame attached to estranging a family member, especially a mother, father, daughter or son. It can be easy to be sucked back in with the hope things will change.

When I walked away though, every attempt at contact has contained abusive behaviour so I have thankfully remained strong and free.

No, I don't get very upset just "fed up with posters assuming that children who walk away from their parents must have been abused in any way" just as Whiff does.

Smiles well said. I nor my husband when he was live abused our children in any shape or form.

I have never abused my children ,in law's or grandsons in any way.

I did not cause my son to sent that email and letter nor did I do any of the things he accuses me of. Nor did I do anything to my daughter in law that caused her to write the awful things she said about me on Reddit.

Adult children do walk away from good parents. I am getting fed up with posters assuming that children who walk away from their parents must have been abused in any way.

I did not cause my son to walk away he and my daughter in law decided to do that themselves. He not only walked away from me but all our side of the family. So are his sister,brother in law ,nephews , aunt ,uncle ,cousins and great aunt and uncle all abusers.

For Smileless2012

I know you get very upset and I'm sorry for your problems but I wasn't saying anything against you, just saying that we can only make ourselves better and the advice I got that was really helpful. I am just an estranged child who is saying it but still a normal person as well and don't think that my estrangement would be the same as anyone else's or anything like that. We just have to be better ourselves as can't change the people who cause estrangements.

I can never recall an EP/EGP saying they never did anything wrong, none of us are perfect so none of us were, are or will be perfect parents. That goes for our AC too.

There's a vast difference between not being perfect, making mistakes and getting things wrong and being so awful that your AC has no choice but to walk away.

Not everyone who becomes estranged has done something to deserve it. They are not all abusers, some are themselves victims of abuse by the one who has estranged them.

If we truly want to help and support one another regardless of whether they are the one who estranged or has been estranged, we must accept what we are told and not judge purely on the basis of our own experience.

I just remembered something else my counsellor said that helped me get it. She said her husband is a GP and lots of people with health conditions go to him and they tell him all the things that they do for their health like diet and exercise and vitamins but they lie about how much they smoke or drink and hide the real things they do to make their health condition worse. She said that abusive people are always like that but people who can take responsibility can change bad habits if they ask for help and it made a lot of sense to me.

I get now that if all anyone does is think about how they didn't do anything wrong in an estrangement situation I don't think anything would get better really. In counselling I've been told to try not to reflect on what I didn't do wrong and reflect more on what I could have done better. If I can handle things better and know where I went wrong i can be a better person. That's hard at first when you realise you were the victim of abuse because it has changed your life in so many ways and it's a lot to deal with. If my mum was able to do that at all then maybe things would be different. The thing is though that abusive peoples lives are built on lying for attention and hurting people to make themselves feel better about their jealousies and their insecurities so admitting any fault makes everything fall apart for them. I really get it now and understand why my mum could not listen to her own child say she was hurting me. Abusive people can't even admit to themselves they were wrong unless it's for little things that don't matter because everything would fall apart. My counsellor says this can happen but not very often because they have to already have lost everything like all friends and family and even work colleagues to risk taking down all the lies and starting again. I don't think anyone can be happy though who lied and people who don't deserve to be hurt can and that's what we have to focus on really isn't it.

Well said Madgran.

You post from a very comfortable position Norah; the only mother figure in your D's and s.i.l.'s lives and the only GM in your GC's.

Offensive people have no need to expect contact Noone has suggested that that they do though Norah

The point being that estrangement is not always caused because someone has been "offensive" and that assumption should not be made!

"Resetting a relationship is one thing! Estrangement is NOT just "resetting a relationship" though.

Unless of course I am misunderstanding what exactly you mean by "resetting" Norah? What is your definition of "resetting"?

A reset yes! But a normal "reset" is NOT estrangement.

"Offensive people have no need to expect contact" agreed but as we all should know, especially those of us who have read the vast number of posts on this subject over the years, not all people who become estranged are offensive.

For those non offensive/non abusive who have been estranged no contact is abuse, it is a cruel and un necessary punishment.

I wonder if your D's p's.i.l. would agree with you Norah that their sons have merely "reset the dynamics to the relationship" by destroying it.

My daughters are not estranged by their doing. Their husbands have at various times and for their own reasons, cut away their parents.

'No contact' is not abuse. The persons involved have reset the dynamics to the relationship.

My daughters partners have, each in his own time, reset with parents. No 'punishment' is involved. Offensive people have no need to expect contact.

It's good to know that the problems with your p's.i.l. have been resolved March. Communication is the key but if one side severs all contact and means of communication there's nothing you can do about it.

Norah, I believe you wrote once that all your daughters were estranged from their in laws. How unfortunate that they all married people with such toxic parents, if your whole family estranged from you, would that be ok, as they would just be doing a reset. I understand you still have your husband for support, imagine those widowed and then estranged. How are they supposed to just think,mom well that’s life and dismiss them.

March I had the in laws from hell . They never loved my husband their own son. But he loved them but didn't like them. But no matter what they said or did we never gave up on them. They treated my family like dirt. But my parents also never gave up on them.

My father in law doted on our daughter and son. He died when she was 4 and he was 8 months. My mother in law took against our daughter as a baby but was all our son. After my father in law's death her attitude and behaviour got worse but my husband would not give up on her . We saw her every week.

When he knew he was terminal he asked me to look after his mom. Which I did for the love of my husband. Even when she told people she hadn't a son or grandchildren in my hearing I soon corrected her. She hadn't got any excuse for that behaviour she hadn't got any form of dementia . She was just wicked. She lived until she was 91 I spent the last 2 days of her life by her hospital bedside 15 a day. I hated both my in laws for the way they treated my husband and the rest of us. I have never hated anyone since.

She refused to go too her own grandchildrens weddings. But went to her nephew and nieces.

My son knows what a bad mother, mother in law and grandmother is he knew her.

He is not a child but a grown man of 34 with 3 children.

I don't hate my son or daughter in law as I don't want or need hate in my life. Had enough of that with my in laws.

Hope all goes well with the rest of your pregnancy and delivery.

My DH estranged himself from his parents due his parents treatment of me after our second child was born but had been brewing since our first.

My experience is that I was hellbent on saying it was ALL down to my inlaws, we did absolutely nothing wrong. I was extremely angry and bitter. Not once did it cross my mind that we contributed in anyway.

We are thankfully back together now after having long conversations from both sides, she didn't realise what she was doing/saying, DH didn't communicate very well, if at all, me and my inlaws didn't have a relationship at all so I couldn't have a honest conversation with them because I didn't know them, mainly my MIL. I was a young mum and had postnatal depression.
They did not know this due to lack of communication on our part.

So basically, it was a mixture of everything from every side.
Everyone apologised and made an effort to work on our relationship.

I'm pregnant with DC3 now and honestly, we have THE Best friendship not just 'in law' relationship.

There are always 2 sides to every estrangement.
Both parties were hurt.

Again. This is my experience but it opened my eyeballs to how wire get crossed.

March you say you are speaking from experience.

Did you walk away from your children or have a child walk away from you? Or did you walk away from your parents?

My son gave me a wonderful time on my birthday last year then 4 days later sent me the vilest email any mother could receive. Full of lies and accusations. He knew he was going to do it when I saw him on my birthday . What he wrote was to thought out. He probably already had it written ready to send. It was cruel and cowardly of him . Not the man I know and love.

He wasn't brought up to be that way . We always talked as a family and if there where problems they got sorted out. He has been always able to talk to both myself and husband about anything.

He has not only cut me out of his life but all our side of the family. The biggest lie of all he said I love you mom. If this is love would hate to see his version of hate.

If I am such an awful mother, mother in law and grandmother why is I still have my daughter and her family. Who I see weekly. Why is it I have other family and friends who love and care about me and who I love and care about .

Seems my crime is I moved house to live nearer to my children which both of them have wanted me to do for years. Live 10mins from my daughter and 40 mins from my son.

I know I am a good mom, mother in law and grandmother. Plus a good person . I know myself very well . Before you ask where my husband is he died 17.5 years ago aged 47. Our daughter was 20 and son 16 when he died.

Estrangement can happen to good people and can happen without any warning.

It doesn't have to be abuse.
It can be anything that the other person isn't willing the change.

What I'm saying is it can be a parent who walks away from it of its making them ill, leaving a relationship with their GC behind because they have no other choice.

That's exactly how some people might feel, be it the AC or the parent/grandparent.

It's never as clear cut as it seems and I am speaking from experience.

Norah, In previous posts I believe you said all your daughters were estranged from in laws. Is that a reset? How would you feel if all your children and grandchildren estranged you? There are people with just one child, widowed, cut of from their only family. That is truly heartbreaking. The assumption, by some, that estrangements are the result of abuse is ridiculous. If you have one child cut you off, whilst having others that don’t, believe me you hurt.
To cut off contact without discussing it, a chance to put things right, imagined or not is a grown up way to go about things, just severing contact is cowardly, what goes round comes round, I truly believe that. What an example to set children. Cut and run if things not going your way. One day you’re sitting pretty, before you know it the tables have turned.

I think a reset is normal to growing a new family

A reset yes! But a normal "reset" is NOT estrangement. I remember that your experience of estrangement is from your SiLs estranging from their parents. Do you regard you SiLs who have estranged from their parents as "just a reset* Norah

Which is why I said I can't imagine it March not that it doesn't happen.

It's never wrong to walk away from an abuser but not everyone whose estranged is an abuser.

You can't imagine it but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
It's got too.

Whether it's their AC, or their partner.
If that person/grandparent/parent is being treated beyond badly by either of those and choose to walk away because they are suffering mentally or physically then they have done the right thing.