Is 'No Contact' abuse?

I've seen it many times here on GN hugshelp and as you say it's a "very momentous truth .

* "When you are arguing for the sake of power, truth doesn't come into it at all".*
Gosh that's a very momentous truth that I've never thought about but seen so many times (and yes sometimes fallen into the trap of when I'm hurt or angry - then I realise my gob is in overdrive and I need to actually LISTEN and THINK.)

Always keep in mind hugshelp that just because we so often hear that "abusive parenting is THE reason AC go no contact" that isn't always the case, and we know as do many EP's that we never abused our AC.

You posted how the aforementioned makes your "constant pain white hot and (you) start questioning every last thing (you) ever did".

This is the damaging consequence of making blanket, one size fits all statements and attempting to tar all EP's with the same abusive brush.

It also IMO totally undermines the experience of AC who have suffered abuse at the hands of their parent(s).

You don't need to question every last thing you ever did. You don't need the bitter, angry rhetoric so often aimed at EP's to make the pain you already have even worse.

We know our truth as do those who know and love us, it doesn't matter if those blinded by their own pain and experience try to turn our truth into a lie. It's cruel and un necessary and as I posted this morning, from Rabbi Sacks "When you are arguing for the sake of power, truth doesn't come into it at all".

We all have different situations and we all have pain, please let's not try and generalise our own situation to be everyone's truth

Hugshelp Very good advice.

hugshelp a lot of what you said there was very lovely. I feel confident that when your son is feeling better and ready you have a good chance of resolving things from the way you speak there. I understand how it feels when you are questioned. Happens to me here also. It gets easier to be patient instead of defensive over time. Didn't know I was being defensive until others here pointed it out. Your truth is yours.

When my ES estranged me it was with, 'I need space and will be in touch in a few months, January at the latest. I will check in once in a while to let you know I'm alive, I'm angry but don't know why, if you love me you won't contact me'
I waited. Months. Years.

After a time I tried very gentle contact. It was always ignored. But I was told, 'he thinks you talk too much trivia and not about the real issues' (which he hasn't yet shared)
And then, when I tried a heartfelt letter, 'he was annoyed you didn't ask how he was doing at work, about his day etc You're trying to make him talk about his feelings'.

I've stopped trying now and hope that respecting his wishes, even though he hasn't kept to what he has said would happen is what he needs and wants. I dearly hope he is sorting himself out and finding happiness, whether I am ever allowed to share any of that or not.

I got snippets from our DD but she isn't 'allowed' to mention the vast majority of things she knows - the implication was clear if she did she would be estranged too.

He met up with his dad once, for his dad's birthday, while seeing his sister. On the proviso I wasn't allowed along and wasn't to be spoken of. His dad did mention me, just to ask when he would talk things over with me, and he got very angry, his dad later got an email which he considered to be abusive. He hasn't heard from him since. He also denied receiving my last letter to his dad, even saying my claiming to send it was me being manipulative, but told his sister he got it and discussed the contents. (he clearly knew what was in it)

I don't for a moment think he has been deliberately abusive. But if I behaved this way, with no explanation and with behaviour that seems to be very divisive to the whole family I would feel I was being very unreasonable at the least. I can only assume his pain makes him need to do so.

Every case is different. I may have failed my kids in many ways, and if given the chance to know how, will do all I can to make amends. But when I hear that abusive parenting is THE reason AC go no contact it makes my constant pain white hot and I start questioning every last thing I ever did.

We all have different situations and we all have pain, please let's not try and generalise our own situation to be everyone's truth.

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The truth shall make ye fret... Fred! Free?!

~Terry Pratchet

Rabbi Sacks says:-

"As a general rule if you want to understand resentments, listen to what people accuse others of and you will then know what they themselves want.

What do you do when you seek not truth but power? You attack not the message but the messenger, you attempt to destroy the standing and credibility of those you oppose. You attempt to de-voice your opponents.

When you are arguing for the sake of power, truth doesn't come into it at all.

An old Latin motto says that to secure justice audi alteram partem Listen to the the other side. It is through listening to the other side that we walk the path to truth."

She doesn't know MissA and what she doesn't know she makes up.

How do you know smileless would be "screaming"?

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That's so true rosecarmel "You can have a greater understanding and deeper empathy but never experience their feelings".

Even when the same thing happens to you that happened to someone else you still have no idea how they feel- You can have a greater understanding and deeper empathy but never experience their feelings-

Not like I haven't wondered what someone else's shoes feel like .. especially when I've physically put on other people's shoes .. and be like, shit .. these shoes don't feel like me ..

You cannot possibly know how someone feels about a particular situation unless you've had the exact same experience.

It's a good saying isn't it PF.

Starblaze, a very good point. It's the old saying of needing to walk in another person's shoes to really know how they feel and why they react or respond to a situation in a particular way.

It's the same as:

Husband gets mad and punches wife on several occasions.

During another argument, he backs her into a corner, his fists and jaw clenched, and she is so frightened she shoves him to get him away from her.

Husband then over exaggerates the momentum of the shove and makes it look like it was a much harder shove that did massive physical damage.

Husband says "See! You can't complain about me! You are just as bad! In fact, you are worse!“

His wife just wanted to be safe.

Madgran -- I tend to consider 'the source' before I take offense to anything.

The idea that my No Contact is even close to as 'bad' as the horrible things my 'mom' to Me did is just laughable and shows the ignorance/stupidity of some people.

I've been subjected to that thought process quite a bit. The, "Well maybe she did abuse you but, by estranging/going No Contact you are 'just as bad'/abusive as she is."

Not an easy thing to deal with for you, I imagine.

Madgran -- There is another way to read what I quoted... That 'parent' is rather admitting that there was "wrong" on their side and that it somehow diminishes their "wrong" by claiming that their child going No Contact is equally 'bad'.

I've been subjected to that thought process quite a bit. The, "Well maybe she did abuse you but, by estranging/going No Contact you are 'just as bad'/abusive as she is."

Two = good. Four= bad. chapter 3 Animal farm

*Two legs good, four legs bad', or is it the other way round?

Or perhaps some two legs good, some two legs bad, some four legs good, some four legs bad..........*

That made me smile PetitFromage. I believe it was 4 legs good, 2 legs bad bit your second version is tge best one!

'Two legs good, four legs bad', or is it the other way round?

Or perhaps some two legs good, some two legs bad, some four legs good, some four legs bad..........

"As such as a lot of estranged adults want to spiel out their tales of woe about "abuse" from their parents, their actions in estranging themselves makes them no better. Their actions are abusive to say the least. Two wrongs don't create a right if there are 2 wrongs to be seen. More often than not, these distanced adults are simply feeling "entitled". Their actions upon their parents are nothing shy or short of true abuse."

I think that is a too simplistic and generalised description of such a complex issue, with every case being different in terms of context, reasons and experiences.

"2 wrongs don't create a right"....no but some wrongs are so wrong that they don't deserve an opportunity to repeat them!

And that applies whether it is an AC or a Parent/GP making the decision.

HolyHannah

Pantglas -- If it happened to Me I would know, that despite my best efforts, I did not break the cycle of abuse as well as I intended to and that my children were forced to make the same horrible choice I did. So no. No Contact is NOT abuse and I have had people walk out of my life and never felt abused by them either. Adults have a right to choose their company regardless of biology/DNA.

Yep- And in no way a disrespectful yep- Simply acknowledging-