Is 'No Contact' abuse?

The 'silent treatment' and No Contact are two different 'things' and I have to question those who try to make them "the same".

Just to clarify ...I am not trying to make no contact and silent treatment the same. I don't think that they are. I am trying to clarify the apparently differing views on this thread about those two things, as so much of this thread seems to have been devoted to those two aspects.

Interesting thoughts Holyhannah thank you

That's situation is not No Contact Mad and March and Hare?

!

Madgran No Contact as a term would of course be used by manipulative/abusive people but it's still a misuse if you see what I mean

Yes I see what you mean! And if the No Contact is actually carried out because the manipulation didn't work?

*On the alternate side, if it is the parent that is abusive and the AC says, "Until you can start doing 'this' or stop doing 'that' we will have to go No Contact..."

That is the grey area because much of the time abusive parents will claim that the 'demands' like I made before the 'final letter' were "too much" and I was being unreasonable and therefore my cut-off was a threat/manipulation in their eyes.

So maybe some adults are demanding cars, houses, child-minding or whatever and that is just ridiculous and obviously abuse.

My 'demands' of, "Don't raise your voices around me to each other or to Me." or, "If I say 'no'? That is the end of the conversation. If you continue on the same subject after I have said 'no'. I will hang up." and silly things like that were just "too much".*

Absolutely Holy Hannah; a very grey area. And I can see that your situation that you describe is very different to the type pf demands I described.

I liked Holyhannah's take on that Madgran

There’s a donkey somewhere missing its hind legs....

cracker Pantglas!

I think there's more than one Pantglas

Madgran -- I think that is ultimately the difference between real No Contact and manipulation.

Real No Contact (non-abusive) is when someone asks for a behavior to change. Ending contact for the purpose of blackmail/threat/manipulation is what makes what some, I believe, to call No Contact "abuse".

I said some people were trying to put the two together. I thought you were doing well to differentiate while seeing the same 'grey area' I did as to the meanings/subtleties.

I don't visit the book of faces very often but this stood out in my newsfeed given today's discussion

Starblaze

I don't visit the book of faces very often but this stood out in my newsfeed given today's discussion

That's beautifully worded ..

I think ongoing, open dialogue is a gift individuals who care about each other share- From pillow talk to full blown heavy handed banter and debate-

But everyone needs space every once in a while and providing people time to think is healthy- Sudden radio silence, religious shunning, intentional deprivation of communication are not healthy, perhaps with one caveat, that whatever occurred hurt so bad that there's either no turning back or an indefinite amount of time is needed to sort things out-

I included religious shunning because it has been my hope that as we move towards a more civilized society, that the practice is eventually abandoned-

Smileless -- You said, "I get the distinct impression that this is less to do with whether or not GP's should be able to go to court in some cases and more to do with an uncontrollable urge some EAC have to pin the label of abusive on all EP's."

You have admitted/declared that your son's only 'abuse' toward You was walking away/going No Contact. So EVERY EAC must also be "abusive" by Your 'logic' because to go No Contact IS abuse in your eyes.

Fine. I'll admit it. I'm abusive. I AM an abuser for doing what I have 'done'.

@Starblaze - that is a lovely and insightful quotation - thank you for sharing it.

Very insightful.

When "Silence comes with no qualifier and others are left to wonder what is actually happening. In this case the silence is actually violence and a passive aggressive attempt to cause suffering ...."

That brilliantly sums up the few weeks of silence we endured before we were finally told we'd been estranged.

Smileless2012

It's wrong to discount someone's explanation and/or reasons as nonsense, simply because you disagree with them.

This is interesting to me

So often we see on estrangement threads of how one should only cut off in case of abuse. Or many GP stating that such and such isn’t a reason and the AC are cowards for not talking through it.

So many people do invalidate AC (or parents if they choose to cut off) feelings when they say that. No one can decide what is “enough” or “enough of a reason” for someone who more than likely had thought long and hard before estranging

"As much as a lot of estranged adults want to spiel out their tales of woe about "abuse" from their parents, their actions in estranging themselves makes them no better. Their actions are abusive to say the least. Two wrongs don't create a right if there are 2 wrongs to be seen. More often than not, these distanced adults are simply feeling "entitled". Their actions upon their parents are nothing shy or short of true abuse."

A lot of EP's sure seem to believe No Contact is abuse...

As the first person to post on your thread HolyHannah, I haven’t seen your reply so would you accept it wasn’t abuse if your child/REN went No Contact with you?

Pantglas -- If it happened to Me I would know, that despite my best efforts, I did not break the cycle of abuse as well as I intended to and that my children were forced to make the same horrible choice I did. So no. No Contact is NOT abuse and I have had people walk out of my life and never felt abused by them either. Adults have a right to choose their company regardless of biology/DNA.

You're right Summerlove and it cuts both ways whether an EP's/EGP's are being invalidated or an EAC's.

OK Smileless

Thanks HolyHannah, you’re only the second EAC I’ve known to say that. Most seem to think it will never happen to them because they’ve done nothing to deserve it, the irony being missed, that it’s not them that gets to decide!

Pantglas -- It is not 'abuse' that I estranged from my parents, so why would I think my children doing it to Me would make NC into abuse when I have stated clearly I do NOT believe No Contact is abuse?

Unlike my abusive/dysfunctional 'mom', I do not employ "two sets of rules" -- One for Me and one for the 'lessers'. If I estrange it's not abuse but if my child estranges from Me it now is?

That's a recurring theme I have heard from some EP's/EGP's -- "I estranged from my parents but it was for 'good reasons' but my child is abusing ME by walking away."

Double-standards are a hall-mark of dysfunctional thinkers.

Well yes of course that is an example of double standards and dysfunctional thinking.

I've seen a few EC say that here Pantglas, myself included...

Its how the abuse cycle perpetuates. My mum knew she was abused and still chose to abuse me, abusing me helped her have an emotional punchbag for her pain.

I went to counselling and read a lot of self help and worked on myself and I could still muck it up. It would be my responsibility because I'm responsible for my behaviour, not the people who abused me.

I'm responsible to heal myself.

I think the fact that I had a wonderful parent who was an amazing role model helped too.