Religion and Estrangement/No Contact.

I agree with you Toadinthehole, Madgran and Chewbacca in relation to Skye's posts.

The message of the Bible is "like a parachute for someone who's in a plane that's about to crash". I love that Skye, it's brilliant and has been my experience when times have been hard especially when faced with our son's estrangement.

There is always room for how everyone feels, there was no negative tone to my comments and lecture is just a word about imparting information. I was just pointing out it may not be helpful in this particular instance to push it

That is interesting Starblaze It takes me back in my thinking to what I was pondering on in another thread in the last few days about individual interpretation and how it appears to often be the cause of misunderstandings and problems on many threads. The use of different words and how different people read them.

In my case it was the use of "point" as opposed to "observation", when to me they are basically the same thing, in the context I used them.

In your post "lecturing me" came over to me as negative in imparting information in the context of this discussion, as opposed to "talking to me" or "discussing with me" which would not have come over to me as negative in the same way.

In the same way "Please understand you are not being helpful here." does not read to me as "pointing it out it may not be helpful in this particular instance". It reads to me as suggesting that a poster should not be posting about her beliefs . I accept that was not your intention as you have told me that of course, but again personal interpretation has played a part in the responses you received I think!

I continue to ponder this as I read various threads on GN and notice how the conversations develop.

I’m very sorry to hear of that, Smileless. That must be so hard. (I haven’t been on this forum to mention and don’t know anyone’s story. I just happened to tap on the thread title under Trending).

It's been a long time since I've read any posts that have made me reflect on a subject of discussion as your posts have Sky17; and whilst I have different beliefs to yours, you put your thoughts across in a very interactive, non judgemental way. Thank you.

I said "here" meaning this thread

Just ask me, always happy to clarify myself

No control over whether I'm believed

Madgran, I agree with your comments; Please understand you are not being helpful here came across in the same way to me too; I thought it was an open discussion about a really very interesting and engaging subject, not one that is asking for advice or support.

As a lifelong atheist, I just find all this religious stuff hilarious. I'm astonished that so many are believers too!

I said "here" meaning this thread

You did say "here". To me that did not come over as this thread, it came over as "here" in terms of the points of view being expressed. Again, its interpretation

Just ask me, always happy to clarify myself

So am I. But the problem is when people interpret something in a particular way then they don't tend to think that they need clarification do they, they assume they have understood it in a particular way. The fact that their personal interpretation is not what the poster meant, isn't in their heads because they have made that interpretation and are responding to it!

No control over whether I'm believed

Not sure why you said this

I'm a "bit of a believer" Hetty! Enough to have respect for those who gain comfort and support from their belief but there are too many times that I can easily blame religion for too many things that are wrong with the world. A foot in both camps, I suppose!

It was and in some ways is still hard Skye.

Discussing religion can be a mine field, as is discussing estrangement. Putting the two together; doubles the number of mines perhaps.

For me, there's a difference between religion and faith. Faith for me is my personal relationship with God.

What may not be helpful to some Starblaze may not be helpful to others but if it helps some, that's a good thing.

Chewbacca I've been in hospital with one of my sons since 9pm last night. He's 15, broke his arm in 2 places, and had surgery. He's asleep right now. The TV only shows the 1 Disney film, the Internet is too slow to do much more than gransnet and the odd WhatsApp message and the chairs are designed to make you want to stand. I'm starving and exhausted and feeling very alone.

I do however apologise if I wasn't able to frame my words in such a way as to stop you getting your knickers in a knot.

Sorry about your son Starblaze Miserable time for you and for your son

However I was not aware of those circumstances when commenting on your post and interpretations. I was just pondering, as I said, looking back on previous thoughts that I expressed, about interpretation.

Ah, your poor son, I hope he's ok and feeling more comfortable very soon Starblaze. Their a worry at any age aren't they?

How do you differentiate between faith and belief though Smileless? And, for example, if you have a faith/belief, that truly gives you comfort but then you discover that that religious order is heavily complicit in, for example, child cruelty or sex abuse, does that shake your belief or faith? Does it make a faith waiver?

As a lifelong atheist, I just find all this religious stuff hilarious. I'm astonished that so many are believers too!

Same Hetty. I’ve been trying to avoid this thread!

Star I’m so sorry to hear about your son. Hope he’s okay.

Madgran I'm a real genuine person all the time, just like you.

Nice to know someone gets it, alexa (16:29) ?

We're all very sorry to hear about your poor son Starblaze, no one is suggesting at all that you're not a genuine person at all, we all know you are. And I'm not getting my knickers in a knot any more than anyone else here has so far. We're just discussing the topic.

Skye17

rosecarmel I’m not sure what you mean.

You're speaking for God when you talk about what God wants without being clear that what you think what God want's is what you personally think God wants-

When people push religion it doesn't end well- Crusades? Oh, yes, bloody mess -- sign us up!!!

that's a good question Chewbacca. My faith is in God and for me faith is the consequence of belief.

Using Skye's parachute analogy, belief is strapping the parachute onto your back. Faith is jumping out of the 'plane and pulling the rip chord.

As for any religious order being complicit in child cruelty and/or sexual abuse, those behaviours belong to those who commit those acts. Those acts are their responsibility, the crime or sin is theirs not God's.

It worse because they purport to be doing God's work and following his teachings. This puts me in mind of a question once asked of Archbishop Temple; when asked why is the clergy so awful. He responded with 'because we've only got the laity to choose from'.

Hope your son is OK Starblaze.

No body's pushing religion rosecarmel this thread's title is 'Religion and Estrangement/No contact. How can we possibly discuss the topic this thread is about without discussing religion?

He's OK, he told me that he was getting really good at scateboarding before he fell. Breaking your arm in 2 places is not the definition of "good".

I nearly got 3 whole children to adulthood with no broken bones.

These chairs are designed to put you in hospital.

It did get a bit pushy Smileless

There really isn't a politer way of saying that.

Please tell the great bearded sky dwelling one his design for elbows sucks.

Yeah our 37 year old DS is the same. He has motor boards now and last year broke his wrist. You've done well to get so far with no broken bones.

DS broke a toe falling out of a tree getting conkers and fractured his knee coming off his mountain bike. He's still into motor boarding, 'extreme' biking whatever that is; I don't ask and a bit of free climbing from time to time. At least he waited until after the event to tell me about his parachute jump, para gliding and swimming with whale sharks.