I've often wondered how much religion plays a part in estrangement.
I was 'raised' Christian and hated IT. The hypocrisy that I saw in that community was appalling to Me even as a minor child... Add the double-standards of my home environment, all these "rules"/ideals existed in principle but the only one following them/MADE to follow them and faced consequences for NOT following those "rules" was ME. Oh and a few 'fellow goats'... A group/community/'family' doesn't need many from my experience and reality -- just enough to make others' "fall into line" lest they become a 'goat' as well.
Here's a list, compiled by an EP of Biblical quotes:
Proverbs 1:8 My child, listen when your father corrects you. Don’t neglect your mother’s instruction.
Proverbs 6:20 My son, obey your father’s commands, and don’t neglect your mother’s instruction.
Proverbs 10:1 The proverbs of Solomon: A wise child brings joy to a father; a foolish child brings grief to a mother.
Proverbs 15:20 Sensible children bring joy to their father; foolish children despise their mother.
Proverbs 19:26 Children who mistreat their father or chase away their mother are an embarrassment and a public disgrace.
Proverbs 20:20 If you insult your father or mother, your light will be snuffed out in total darkness.
Proverbs 23:22 Listen to your father, who gave you life, and don’t despise your mother when she is old.
Proverbs 23:25 So give your father and mother joy! May she who gave you birth be happy.
Proverbs 28:24 Anyone who steals from his father and mother and says, “What’s wrong with that?” is no better than a murderer.
Proverbs 30:11 Some people curse their father and do not thank their mother.
Proverbs 30:17 The eye that mocks a father and despises a mother’s instructions will be plucked out by ravens of the valley and eaten by vultures.
And this is why I'm a Jedi.
Chewbacca
Your sibling sound more like a despot than a believer of a religion rosecarmel! I've not come across any one like that.
If you believe in God, why not trust God and let God do the talking instead of laying manipulative, guilt trips on people?
Oh, sorry, Chewbacca .. ? .. That wasn't meant for you!
Skye -- "Hypocrites were the only people Jesus spoke to harshly. God hates hypocrisy and the ill-treatment of the powerless. If you were powerless and ill-treated as a child, he was on your side. He loves you now. Don’t let the wrong actions of humans put you off him."
Therein lies part of the problem and as Starblaze said, for many, the ship has sorta sailed. You said, "all the teachings for children that you list aren’t meant to be followed in isolation from the rest of Scripture." Exactly. But as you said, that wasn't how Christianity was applied around Me and I could see the hypocrisy.
So 'God' was "on my side"... What exactly did he 'do' that helped Me? How did his love benefit Me then? All having 'God' in my life did was create more guilt and shame in myself.
"I agree, they can live a good and moral life (by human standards) their own way. But can they be right with God, and escape judgement for wrongdoing, their own way?" As soon as you add a 'but', the message is to ignore what came before. I don't care if I am 'right with God'. God has never done 'right' by Me. Much like my abusers he wanted/demands love and devotion and gives nothing positive in return from my POV.
"Who has never done anything wrong?" -- I've heard many EP's claim that and Christianity so...
"It is a shame to miss out on salvation, and all the benefits of a relationship with God in this life, because of being put off by the wrong actions of humans." Says who? My 'salvation' came when I realized I had the right to believe whatever I wanted... NOT what other people wanted Me to believe.
"The message of the Bible is not like a belt for someone who has braces. It’s like a parachute for someone who’s in a plane that’s about to crash." -- If my choice in a plane crash is to grab 'the book' or the parachute? I'm leaving the book...
I agree with Starblaze... I don't really need to be told I am 'wrong' in some way, for turning away from one more thing that caused Me pain...
I don't really need to be told I am 'wrong' in some way, for turning away from one more thing that caused Me pain...
Nobody does!
Why do people who claim to have no faith and hate God so much spend so much time talking about Him? The devil uses scripture all the time, to put us under law. ( He even tried to tempt Jesus himself to no avail obviously ). The devil works very well through the churches, because his whole purpose is to stop people getting to God. This is why, as Christians, we have to focus entirely on Jesus, and not the churches, which are corrupted by man.
The Bible was a book of law, in the Old Testament. People couldn’t remember half of them, and didn’t keep the other half! We can’t get to God through keeping the law, so God sent Jesus. Now.....all we need to do is believe in Him. He’s paid for our imperfections on the Cross. Now we’re under Grace. Anyone who says different....is WRONG.
Hannah.... you’re damaged by biblical abuse, and I can see why you’d want nothing to do with God. Your parents were as far away from being Christian as Satan is. Don’t blame yourself. God loves you very much, and I will pray that you will know that soon.
I don't really need to be told I am 'wrong' in some way, for turning away from one more thing that caused Me pain...
Agreed Madgran, who does and, more to the point, who's said anyone was "wrong" for turning away from religion? Religion is one thing that we do have a choice in, whether to follow one or not, no one's forced.
I didn't say I know what God thinks rosecarmel I said I know God. I've known Mr. S. for over 40 years but wouldn't say I know what he thinks.
I noticed a couple of things I haven't clarified.
I said I wasn't always believed because, when people in the estrangement threads have misread me and I have clarified, they have decided to run with their interpretation of what I said to further dismiss me. I am an expert on what I mean when I say things.
I said that I am a real genuine person all the time because, people go through things all the time.
I get a harder time around here than others who say (depending on perspective of those reading it) worse things than I do.
I'm never sure whether that is a me problem or a them problem but in consideration of my first two points. I'm going with them lol
I also notice that Holyhannah agrees with what I said to Skye as kindly as I could. It was her feelings as one abused by religion, as if religion was a belt to beat her with, that I considered most important in this thread.
That doesn't detract from others interpretation or experience of religion at all. Not in any way.
thats an awful lot of bible quotes for someone who's a jedi. there are christian and old time christian .,i too went to sunday school. church of england school .christened as a methodist.. but in 1994 i truly did see the light .baptised after seeing billy graham ,now i knew the true meaning of becoming/being a christian . our church is more about learning /family/friends /regardlessly of cultures .we are one big family..i find the older part of the bible demeaning as its all based on what "men" said or done or made the rules..some times i feel claustrophobic by following church rules .we may look like gods sheep all following one person.. but have found innner peace.... especially in this troubled world . oh and heres my proverb to you .proverbs 15.v30. a cheerful look brings joy to the heart and good news gives health to the bones.i may be a sheep but i like being a black sheep too..!!!
All these comments seem to be about Christianity and the Bible. I went off Christianity ( but not God) when we sang a hymn referring to the ‘heathen in other lands’. Have you ever wondered what you would be if you were born and lived in say China, or Arabia? Do you thing you were born into a nominally Christian country because you somehow deserved to be Christian? or do you think that if you were born in Iran to Moslem parents you would discover Christianity and become Christian? I am not a Moslem, but look at what they achieved in arts and science when their empire spread from Spain to China. I see religion as progressive - Christ renewed the vigour of the Old Testament and added the new teaching of eternal life. Islam updated OT laws to fit a far expanded world and more advanced culture. Who knows what the world would be like now if Christians had cooperated instead of fighting them. Perhaps both Faiths would have been better for it. All major religions are now more man made than God made and in truth their teachings are no longer suited to our world, but all expect a “return” to bring peace on earth. Is this return going to be Zoroastrian, Buddhist, Hindu, Jewish, Christian or Moslem?
If He/She does not fit our idea of how they will be no doubt they will be persecuted and ignored like their predecessors.
We should just worship cats. They know who needs tlc
Have to disagree - cats know who will give it to them, dogs know who needs it! ?
Lol mine always sit on whoever is poorly but maybe you are right and they know who is most likely to be a warm comfy bed for the longest
I think cats and dogs are much the same as far as that goes.
who say (depending on perspective of those reading it) worse things than I do.
I don't think you said anything potentially "bad" which to me your comment above implies. I just didn't agree with what you said, in my interpretation of it from the words you used, which I explained. So we didn't agree which is presumably fine for both of us!
Also I notice that Holyhannah agrees with what I said to Skye as kindly as I could. It was her feelings as one abused by religion, as if religion was a belt to beat her with, that I considered most important in this thread. That doesn't detract from others interpretation or experience of religion at all. Not in any way.
Yes HolyHannah does agree with what you said which is presumably fine for both of you, within the context of your experiences.
So 'God' was "on my side"... What exactly did he 'do' that helped Me? How did his love benefit Me then? All having 'God' in my life did was create more guilt and shame in myself.
I can understand why you feel like that HolyHannah within the context of your experiences that you have shared on here.
P.S. Starblaze How is your son today?
Toadinthehole -- "Why do people who claim to have no faith and hate God so much spend so much time talking about Him?" -- First off, I don't hate God. Second off, I do have a faith and I believe my faith allows me to lead a good and moral life. Is that not more or less the point of most religions? So some find that in Christianity, I do not and I stated My reasons as to why. Hate is a negative/Dark Side emotion and The Force teaches to turn from the Dark Side.
"Don’t blame yourself." -- I don't... Not anymore. "God loves you very much, and I will pray that you will know that soon." -- I accept good vibes from wherever they come.
moggie57 -- I did not write the list, I simple quoted it.
Just because I consider myself Jedi does not mean I am incapable of understanding other religions. I was raised as a Christian and know the faith well.
Madgran -- I appreciate your acknowledgement of my situation. It's terrible when people subvert anything to meet an end, whether that be religion or the legal system... Unfortunately both happen.
Madgran -- I think this is about the best and most concise lists of how I practice Jedi...
www.templeofthejediorder.org/doctrine-of-the-order
"A Jedi lives as a Jedi at all times. Hypocrisy is their worst enemy." This was something I alluded to about whether I say something 'in private' or I post it in a comment, my truth never changes.
That mentality is also why I was attracted to the faith...
Another good article is:
www.learnreligions.com/jedi-religion-jediism-95690
It's a quick sum-up of the longer version.
Holy Hannah, I believe I have seen a play about this sort of situation plus the complication the girl heroine was Lesbian. It was called "Oranges Are Not the Only Fruit".
I mention this because the arts are great for helping with putting things in perspective.
It is mildly amusing that someone who rejects conventional religions chooses to embrace one that was originally conceived as a parody religion in order to make a political protest. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jedi_census_phenomenon
geekesse -- Check out the origins of Scientology...
And if you look into the background of the Jedi faith you'd see that is based on multiple different religions/faiths.
Anyone who finds my beliefs 'amusing' really should look at Christianity from an unfiltered lens...
Really? Symbolically eating the flesh and drinking the blood of the 'Savior'?
More than one way to use religion to abuse someone apparently
Registering is free, easy, and means you can join the discussion, watch threads and lots more.
Register now »Already registered? Log in with:
Gransnet »Get our top conversations, latest advice, fantastic competitions, and more, straight to your inbox. Sign up to our daily newsletter here.
