Overcomplicated

MissAdventure -- We self reported to our local child protection agency when we had our first. We informed them that would likely be getting a report about Us at some point. We got to know the agency well. I cannot imagine the shock whoever (outside of Us) got when they called to report Us. CPS informed them a file was already open and to basically, "Have a nice day."

It sounds as though you've done the best thing in keeping your distance from your parents HolyHannah; the trust, communication and relationship appears, from what you've told us, to have irretrievably broken down. With no will, on either side, to repair it and move forward, it sounds like you're both better off with independent lives.

My daughter has taken responsibility for estranging me and apologises to me deeply at times. As I tell her, that is a paradox. She didn't feel responsible for the pain and heartbreak estrangement caused me until I became responsible for the pain I caused her. It's a wonderful circle of forgiveness.

Thank you to everyone who has shared your thoughts and stories to me. I truly wish you all the best possible outcome that suits the situation

Bridie22 -- Unfortunately that is the attitude with which my 'mom' interacted with me. I really see that as an excuse to not even try to find a better way.

So it became, the mentality of, "Well... Hannah's not going to like what I say or do regardless..." so she'd just go on the attack because it doesn't matter in her mind.

It does matter from my perspective. Perhaps if her approach wasn't from her anger based mentality and her belief that I am "just like her", she wouldn't approach me with hostility. The hostility and lack of basic respect/abuse is what I fled from.

I suppose it would depend on your particular laws surrounding child safety, hannah.

I have seen people here being told that mouldy cups aren't an issue, sleeping in the same bed with mummy's new 'partner' isn't, but for me, they would be.

The point being, that it can hardly be said that grandparents here automatically band together against adult children.

We are damned if if we do anything and damned if we don't, not a chance in hell of doing or saying the right thing.
Now all communications and gestures have to be over thought, dissected, planned before we say or do anything with our children and grandchildren,it no longer feels like a family, just people I know in passing.
Heartbreaking.

MissAdventure -- According to my parents and in-laws, my children are in danger. Now what?

I stand by my statement that we need to be careful about certain statements we make because of the possible implications MamaBear.

I was not suggesting that's what FriendlyGhost intended when she made her post.

As I posted earlier, I have never seen an EAC accept full responsibility for estranging their parents and as you've said Madgran FriendlyGhost is the first EP to have done so.

That's right MissA, I've seen P's jumped on from a great height for not minding their own business and for the smallest of slights which is why it's so refreshing to see the supportive comments FriendlyGhost is receiving.

If a child is in danger.

Madgran -- But therein lies a big problem.

What the grand-parent calls "genuine concern" for the well-being of a grand-child can also be a furthering of abuse/extension of it toward the parent. How does one tell the difference?

Actually MissA youve just reminded me that, apart from the thread that you mention thats currently being discussed, theres another, similar thread, regarding a mother who is worried that her daughter's house is "very messy and untidy and what should she do". The vast majority of replies were "Do nothing. Mind your own business, its nothing to do with you". I wonder if, on another chat forum somewhere there's a post from a young woman saying "I'm struggling to cope with a job, a child and the home and my mother never offers to help".

*Gransnet has a good few threads where parents are being told in no uncertain terms to mind their own business, keep their own counsel, that they are no longer "number 1" in their child's life.
There is one just yesterday, politely reminding someone that their child's spending is their own affair.*

Yes MissA I agree, certainly some people do need help to be reminded, even when "interference" is well meant but very misguided. And in the example you give, I believe virtually every poster gave exactly that message, highlighting that the general view was towards letting go, minding their own business etc. With the very sensible qualifier regarding if there were any concerns about neglect, abuse etc of the Grandchild;

Entirely understandable as I am sure no one would want or expect a GP to ignore genuine concerns about the safety of a young child, in the name of "letting their AC go to live their own lives"

Gransnet has a good few threads where parents are being told in no uncertain terms to mind their own business, keep their own counsel, that they are no longer "number 1" in their child's life.
There is one just yesterday, politely reminding someone that their child's spending is their own affair.

So... I refute the idea that almost every parent thinks they can direct anyone's life.

Madgran -- You would have to point those posts etc. out for me. I can't think of any, let alone "quite a few" parents taking responsibility.

Sorry no recollection of user names and as over several years that I have been on GN, I doubt my brain will dredge them up to my memory.

Added to which I tend generally to focus on what is being posted rather than individual posters/names so even less likely to dredge the names up. If I do I will let you know.

I don't recall a parent actually posting on an estrangement thread after they have taken responsibility, seen themselves totally at fault, rectified it, healed themselves and now having an obviously blissful relationship with their EAC ...I agree with you there, Friendly Ghost is such an amazing exception. Well done you Friendly Ghost for bothering to come on here to try and help others.

However I have definitely seen estranged parents who are worried, upset, trying to work out what to do ie in a process (something we all have to go through when learning, growing and making decisions) saying that they know they have made mistakes, done the wrong thing, spoken out of turn, had the wrong expectations etc and now don't know how to rectify things. I have definitely seen that

Smileless “I do think we need to be careful about making statements like most parents of my generation would not agree my behaviour was wrong in any way. They would not agree it was bullying, let alone abusive as it gives the impression that most parents of a particular generation abused their children because they didn't regard what they were doing as abusive.“

I believe Friendlyghost clarified her statement and said that in her experience the majority of people of her generation who she has told her story with have responded this way.

Friendlyghost this resonates with me:
“All the problems and arguments it caused, I blamed on her because she had changed not me.
I now understand I simply forgot to let my child grow up and become an autonomous adult with her own life to lead that I wasn't always a part of. I tried to bully her into keeping it that way and doing what I thought was best for her, inserting myself into her future dreams. “

So many times my MIL accused my husband of changing. Of course he changed! He became a husband, and then a father, and his priorities changed and he grew and he changed. Which is as it should be. MIL didn’t like her son growing and changing because she could no longer control him.

I think you're right Madgran there's a big difference between giving an opinion and forcing your opinion onto someone else, to get them to go in a particular direction.

I do think we need to be careful about making statements like most parents of my generation would not agree my behaviour was wrong in any way. They would not agree it was bullying, let alone abusive as it gives the impression that most parents of a particular generation abused their children because they didn't regard what they were doing as abusive.

I agree with the statement that "it takes two to make a relationship work but it only takes one side not willing to see their part to collapse the whole thing".

That was certainly the case for us.

I'm glad FriendlyGhost that you now have a better understanding of yourself and your D, and that no one tells either of you what to do.

You're both adults and no one, be they someone's parent, partner or AC should be telling another adult what to do.

FriendlyGhost, thank you so much for sharing your experience here. The fact that you have highlighted that you sought help and did the work required to realise what your issues were are so positive.
I think everyone could benefit from having tools to enable genuine self reflection, I know I certainly would have appreciated having a way to healthily work through my feelings when I was estranging from my late MIL.
I acknowledge I didn’t always behave graciously, and retaliated through hurt feelings instead of communicating effectively, and counselling helped me to realise that.
Unfortunately, both parties need to be willing to create a healthy dialogue, which sadly is a rarity.
Again, thank you so much for sharing with us and I hope you and your DD have many happy years ahead of you.

Thank you for sharing your experience Friendlyghost It’s very rare on these boards to read a story of true self reflection, repentance, and reconciliation. It’s very heartwarming to hear your story, and I’m so happy for you that it’s worked out so well, although it must have been very difficult for you to come to the realization that your behavior pushed your daughter away.

I don’t think my own situation will ever resolve that way. My husband is estranged from his mother, and she has blamed me for it (the evil DIL, the 3rd party that came into the family and ruined everything). Although my husband has explained to his parents many times over the years how their controlling behavior (and subsequent tantrums when they didn’t get their way) drove us away, they continue to claim they “are baffled” and deny doing anything wrong. When my husband has tried to explain their behavior that was hurting us, they accused him of being abusive toward them. There is no self reflection on their part and sadly I don’t believe there ever will be. All we have ever asked is for the control and tantrum behaviors to stop and to stop disrespecting me and we can resume a relationship. They said no.

I am terribly sorry for causing offence but most parents I know or have spoken with (whether that be estranged or still very much a family unit) do not see any problems with my behaviour at all and certainly not grounds for estrangement.

I remember this smiling little girl holding my hand and going on adventures while I quietly took care of all her needs. I tried to hold onto that as she became a young woman. All the problems and arguments it caused, I blamed on her because she had changed not me.
I now understand I simply forgot to let my child grow up and become an autonomous adult with her own life to lead that I wasn't always a part of. I tried to bully her into keeping it that way and doing what I thought was best for her, inserting myself into her future dreams.

Thank you for listening

Madgran -- You would have to point those posts etc. out for me. I can't think of any, let alone "quite a few" parents taking responsibility.

I have heard some EP's describing abuse but it was justified/'explained' and minimized away. I have seen some EP's call out actual abuse but I didn't see the 'parent in question' regard the feedback as accurate... They stood by their, "I am not abusive."

The, "I know I was abusive and that's why I got cut out and I fixed the issue in myself and things got better" parent? I don't think I've heard that here before.

Very positive Madgran.

Over the years that I have been on GN I have seen quite a few who have taken responsibility for their part ...so more hope for EAC Holy Hannah than just Friendly Ghost as a new poster, which is nice isn't it

I'm not sure you can speak on behalf of most parents though, because each and every person/ family/situation is different.

Ain't that the truth MissA!

I think that the ability to see, and recognise, that our own personal experiences, whether positive or negative, are exactly that. Some of us had a shit relationship with our own parents but went on to have happy and loving relationships with our own children and GC. Others had happy, loving and nurturing relationships with our parents but not so much with our adult children. And there are millions of reasons as to why that might be: parents are the cause/adult children are the cause/both are the cause.
Maturity brings a recognition and understanding that our own circumstances and experiences are exactly that; they apply only to us; no one else. What we have done to cause a rift or estrangement within our own family might be perfectly acceptable in someone else's. Similarly, what we have done to create harmonious and peaceful relationships; could annoy someone else to the point of complete and total estrangement.

Maturity, experience of life and a broad outlook makes you realise that there are a million ways of living a life and yours is just one of them.

Madgran -- I agree. It gives hope to EAC that if one parent can see their part that perhaps others can learn to as well.