Domestic Violence from kids to parents

Bibbity

Violence against children has proven to produce violent adults.

So very true. I've worked at many schools (both low socioeconomic and high socioeconomic) also a prison. There was a distinct relation between physical punishment and the anger of the child. One family in particular in the jail. The mother would be constantly threatening and hurting her children (everything reported), her children were the worst. They had serious anger issues and every hit made it worse. This was also more common in the lower socioeconomic schools. Screaming angry parents creating angry children. In contrast, the calm parents whom I saw using redirection, negotiating and explaining had calm children.

My dad was very physically abusive to my brothers. If he ever heard about any kind of incident, he would be there hurting them badly. It never stopped them, they got worse. My brother is now a career criminal (currently in prison right now for armed robbery). My parents used to constantly brag about 'they just need a good beating' when hearing a story about a criminal teen, well guess what it doesn't work.

Where are people lining up against minor children? This thread highlighted an all too often not talked about issue of parents being the victims of domestic violence perpetrated by their children.

The case I referred too was an example of the disruption caused to a family by a minor child, and the case Chewbacca referred too was an awful example of boys aged 7 and 9 physically abusing their mother.

Of even greater concern are the numbers of AC who physically abuse their parents, which as pointed out earlier, can include fathers as well as mothers.

This thread isn't about abused children being scapegoated by abusive parents, it isn't about child abuse, it's about children abusing parents. We don't stop referring to our own, or other peoples children as children when they become adults, they are always their parents children.

The OP doesn't clarify the age of the lads using violence towards their mothers. Lots of discussion here about the age at which children can be said to be using domestic violence against parents.
Toddlers often lash out, surprisingly toddlers who have never been in an environment where adults smack our yell, will smack and yell themselves. It's a perfectly normal developmental stage. By 3 or 4 years, tantrums like you see in 18 month olds are largely gone because parents manage them well.
The family Chewbacca uses to illustrate parenting that isn't meeting the needs of the children, definitely need help. Many schools have close links with their social work teams who used to be able to offer 1-1 advice and referrals to sure start/other family centres for parenting skills groups. The mum definitely needs that kind of support and it would also enable a proper assessment of the children's needs. Whether any resources are left after 10 years of austerity, to meet those needs is another story.
Our prisons and youth offending centres are full of boys who were neglected and/or subject to extremes of physical and emotional abuse. The levels of illiteracy are high. Children can't learn when they're terrified or exhausted as too many children are.
There is a lot of focus on the 'old methods, clip round the ear' etc as though somehow returning to that kind of approach would solve our social problems. Society is different than it was 50 years ago. The young parents I know are child focussed, the children loved and cared for and no they're never hit. Hitting hurts physically and emotionally.

Smileless2012

Where are people lining up against minor children? This thread highlighted an all too often not talked about issue of parents being the victims of domestic violence perpetrated by their children.

The case I referred too was an example of the disruption caused to a family by a minor child, and the case Chewbacca referred too was an awful example of boys aged 7 and 9 physically abusing their mother.

Of even greater concern are the numbers of AC who physically abuse their parents, which as pointed out earlier, can include fathers as well as mothers.

This thread isn't about abused children being scapegoated by abusive parents, it isn't about child abuse, it's about children abusing parents. We don't stop referring to our own, or other peoples children as children when they become adults, they are always their parents children.

Do you really consider a 7 year old child as a perpetrator of domestic violence and an abuser?

Sadly it's not just sons - I have had issues with both my daughters. But then they saw their dad hitting me when they were young.

I find it embarrassing that they behaved like that and hurt that they thought it was ok. The police were called a few times over the years. One of my daughters though has severe MH issues and can't control her emotions, but my emotions don't seem to come into it?

I consider a 7 year old who drop kicks the back of his mother's legs, knocking her to the ground as physically abusing his mother.

Don't be embarrassed MadeInYorkshire, it must have been heartbreaking to have your D's mimicking their father's abusive behaviour.

I hope your D with the MH issues is seeking and receiving the help she needs.

Children that are out of control ultimately end up in care and/or members of a gang. As a gang member you have to respect the leader and those ranking higher in the gang, if you disobey the sanction is violence, maybe extreme violence. There are no social services to intervene then, once respect for parents is lost it’s very hard, especially for single mothers

There should be some system where these out of control children are taught proper behavior at an early age, some are out of control at nursery level and primary school.

So would I Smileless. It is not a ‘developmental norm’ to be doing that to a parent at seven. Toddler tantrums is a stage which most young children go through because they haven’t got the verbal skills to communicate and become frustrated. I would not expect that to be the case with an older child unless they had some sort of learning difficulty. I feel very sorry for the parent in this case and hope she gets help and support. The behaviour is only likely to get worse. I feel at times too many excuses are made for unacceptable behaviour in children.

Smileless2012

I consider a 7 year old who drop kicks the back of his mother's legs, knocking her to the ground as physically abusing his mother.

Don't be embarrassed MadeInYorkshire, it must have been heartbreaking to have your D's mimicking their father's abusive behaviour.

I hope your D with the MH issues is seeking and receiving the help she needs.

I really hope there is some intervention in that woman’s situation as those boys are being failed.

Unfortunately an out of control child is going to grow up as an out of control adult. What is a temper tantrum as a toddler is acceptable and normal, but most people grow out of that and learn emotional regulation. Unfortunately many abusive adults are impulsive and lack emotional regulation because they missed out on an important part of their development.

An adult toddler is a scary thing. Having lived with an abusive ex, I can tell you this for real. I did not find out until later that he had been in a remand home as a kid, for behavioural disorders. I never did find out what they were...

Some children CAN be manipulative. I agree with Smileless there. I have worked with children for most of my working life, so I have seen and heard a lot of upsetting things, attended Social Services meetings etc. Sometimes children lie about awful things, but I still think you should believe everything and then investigate it.

Davidhs, you say there should be a system where out of control children are taught appropriate behaviour at an early stage.
That’s the job of parents. That’s what family and sure start centres, Camhs, social work etc etc were set up to do. To help parents who were struggling, parents who hadn’t had the best role models in their family of origin, parents whose children presented challenges because for eg of developmental disorders.

@MadeinYorkshire I'm so sorry. Yes I had the same thing with my kids before I left their Dad. I thought by leaving him that I could bring them up Properly in a stable home. I did do that and I married a stable man to give them a solid role model. But one of mine has MH problems and also my feelings "don't matter " either so I know how you feel. Feel free to PM me if it helps to talk.

I hope so too MrsWarren for the children's and their mother's sake.

This thread isn't about abused children being scapegoated by abusive parents, it isn't about child abuse, it's about children abusing parents

I don’t think it is a separate issue at all. We are essentially discussing children who are showing clear signs of abuse.

Witnessing abuse carries the same risk of harm to children's mental health and learning as being abused directly.

Iam64

Davidhs, you say there should be a system where out of control children are taught appropriate behaviour at an early stage.
That’s the job of parents. That’s what family and sure start centres, Camhs, social work etc etc were set up to do. To help parents who were struggling, parents who hadn’t had the best role models in their family of origin, parents whose children presented challenges because for eg of developmental disorders.

I agree completely.

The reason toddlers often lash out is the same as the reason older children may do it... Being able to speak or communicate doesn't mean anyone is listening or paying attention. So they go for negative attention instead because they need contact in any form and if unaddressed take those unhealthy thinking patterns into adulthood

Thanks Smileless2012 and Lavazza1st one was very late teens at the time (she is now a lovely full time MUM) and the other who is knocking on 30 is like an adult toddler and has Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder, which is SO difficult to understand and live with - she is now back at University which is her last chance to do something really and if this doesn't work I am afraid I will have a suicide on my conscience too. She currently isn't allowed back to me, so am really hoping she can make a go of it as there is literally nowhere else she can go within the family as none of us can cope sadly ....

MadeInYorkshire

Thanks Smileless2012 and Lavazza1st one was very late teens at the time (she is now a lovely full time MUM) and the other who is knocking on 30 is like an adult toddler and has Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder, which is SO difficult to understand and live with - she is now back at University which is her last chance to do something really and if this doesn't work I am afraid I will have a suicide on my conscience too. She currently isn't allowed back to me, so am really hoping she can make a go of it as there is literally nowhere else she can go within the family as none of us can cope sadly ....

My mum quite clearly has Borderline Personality Disorder (more commonly known as EUPD). Has your daughter been diagnosed? I’ve heard great things about dialectical behavioural therapy (DBT). If she has a diagnosis, she could enquire through her GP for a possible referral for DBT.

It develops as a reaction to trauma, but that doesn’t make it any easier to deal with.

Chewbacca I am sorry but if I had seen children doing this to their mother i would have had to say something to them. Unless it is pointed out to them by someone other than their mum that their behavior is unacceptable, they will never know. My heart goes out to that young mum.

*currently known, not commonly

HolyHannah a tiny baby can manipulate let alone one at infant/primary school age, so your " blame the parents " remark doesn't hold water.

EllanVannin

HolyHannah a tiny baby can manipulate let alone one at infant/primary school age, so your " blame the parents " remark doesn't hold water.

A baby is not manipulating anyone! A baby is trying to get its needs met.

Children’s behaviour is a form of communication. Communication to get their needs met.

A young child cannot be held responsible for their behaviour; they are not born knowing how to behave appropriately. That is the job of the parent. Responsibility lies with the parents.

Then you have genetics !

EllanVannin

Then you have genetics !

Ah, it’s genetic!

The ultimate method of absolving oneself of responsibility for how their child turns out.

It is never that simple.

Genes and environment have a complicated relationship. Environmental factors affect different individuals differently, depending upon genotype.

In many cases it is genetic. If an offspring of a parent who was prone to violence were to have an MRI scan you'd find different " wiring " within the brain to that of a normal child.

I've assisted with encephalograms in the past and have seen it myself in a child's trace. No doubt one of the parents was also prone to violence. It's not something that can't be solved, even without medication.

Take away the mobiles from these parents and give that time to the children instead !