DIL hates me and obstructs me seeing GC

I think you'll find common sentiment will probably be that facilitating your time and relationship with your GC is your son's job and should be done through him. You see your GC on his parenting time unless your DIL is willing to have that relationship. When a relationship breaks up, it is your own child you would usually work with to see your GC. If your child doesn't facilitate that, it's not on the other parent to fill the gap. It's nice if they are willing to have that relationship with you, but it's not a given. To see your GC, you need to take this up with your son.

How often do you see your GC?

I think you need to focus on improving your relationship with the couple, rather than focusing on seeing your grandchild. If you can return to what appears to have been a previously positive relationship then you will naturally see more of your grandchild and be able to see him/her.

If your son and DIL are not broken up, same applies. Talk to your son. Putting it on your DIL will just make the relationship with her worse.

Do you have a relationship with the family or just ask to see your grandchild alone? My MIL would have seen my children more if she'd been more willing to do things as a family rather than trying to get the kids away from me. How often do you see your GC? I thought once ever four weeks was pretty good going, my MIL thought it was deprivation. I saw my own grandmother twice in my life.

Agree with Oceanmama said

What happened that your dil moved back with her mother when she got pregnant? Did your son move too?

Why was your son perceived not to step up to the plate?

Need more information if possible.

Linmac66, I could have written that post myself. I am not totally cut off, but......may as well be. I go there by appointment (understandable) but when I am there, I am blanked out. She is on that phone of hers all the time . My son comes down, says hello and then goes up to his room, because he works from home. The little ones and I play and chat. The fact is, I don’t think she likes me, for some reason.
We just have to grin and bear for the sake of the little ones. I share your pain and frustration.

crazyH, you say your son goes upstairs because he works from home. Are you visiting in working hours? Maybe your DIL feels it is your son's job to look after his parents and she looks after hers? I think a lot of modern couples take this approach. I can understand it's disappointing and a bit lonely when you visit and no-one is there to visit with, other than the children. Is there no other time they can see you outside of working hours?

Thank you for your replies. Oceanmama they are still together but he has to check with DIL if it’s ok and I don’t think they communicate well. She prefers me to see GC without her there so we can build our own relationship. But I do agree that I should try to build a relationship with her again. We can’t do house visits just now but when we can I should probably go and see her regularly for visits.
Hithere to explain a bit more: her family are quite well off but we aren’t and my son was 20 and on minimum wage with a car - that he needed to get to work - to pay for so he didn’t have much left. DIL and her mum wanted all the best stuff but he just couldn’t afford it. Also, I don’t know why she moved back to her mums. There was no argument and all she said was that it would be for the best.

crazyH I feel for you. When I’m there DIL is either out or stays in her bedroom. I feel like an unwanted intruder. But I think I should try to build our relationship again. I really missed her when we weren’t talking at all. Maybe I avoid it because she complains a lot about my son and I don’t know what to say. He can be very selfish but I can’t change him.

Oceanmama I try to see my GC every weekend for a couple of hours but it usually ends up being once every three weeks.

She prefers me to see GC without her there so we can build our own relationship.

She trusts you then. No way would she leave the GC with you without her if she didn't.

Once ever three weeks is actually a lot of visiting in my book. Every weekend would be overwhelming. There are friends to schedule, other family, chores to do, when they are older there are activities, not to mention just needing down time. I think maybe your expectations are a bit high? No criticism meant there, just a thought.

Building a relationship with your DIL, if she wants one, is a good plan. I wish my own MIL had wanted that with me.

I try to see my GC every weekend for a couple of hours

Honestly that would be way to much.
You still haven’t covered the relationship with your son. It’s just not on her.

Yes OceanMama, I go in the afternoon, on Saturdays or Sundays. The mornings are not suitable because they like a lie-in , (so do I?) - somehow there’s a steel screen between us and I can’t get through. She is an only child and her mother and she are like two peas in a pod. When the babies arrived,I remember d.i.ls mother saying - they’re mine, all mine. Rather an obnoxious woman......

Only once a month? Is that the norm? My mum lived overseas so didn’t see my kids but but my MIL saw my firstborn at least once a week. He goes to her mum’s every Friday night for sleepover. I don’t want her to think I don’t care. I always try to be sensitive to people’s feelings and am told I’m over sensitive and that I should assert myself more but with my DIL she so often thinks I’m having a dig. I would never be like that. I feel like she looks for excuses to be annoyed with me.
My relationship with my son is ok except when it comes to DIL. He tells me that she’s upset because I said this or that but I can see she’s twisting my words. (Eg I say “how can I help” and she repeats it as “what do you expect me to do”.) Also I stick up for her when they argue and he gets annoyed at me for getting involved. He’s in the middle between us and I’m in the middle between them. I’ve been keeping out of it between them completely for last year. She maybe feels I’m letting her down. She’s coming across here unfavourably but she can be lovely too and I think she’s just scared.

I would be careful about asserting yourself more with your DIL. It's only likely to push her further away if there is already tension of some kind.

As far as once a month being 'normal', what is normal will vary from person to person but once a week is, IMO, exhausting. I do think that you are wanting too much and are definitely not obstructed from seeing your GC at the rate of once a week. Whatever you did with your children was up to you, it doesn't mean your children will do the same for you.

I would be careful of things like this. You wrote: He tells me that she’s upset because I said this or that but I can see she’s twisting my word

So you know she is upset because of something you have said but you are trying to dismiss it. Your not accepting it doesn't change the reality of what you have been told and how she feels. Even if she is being sensitive, and I don't know if she is or not, it's how she feels.

Also, you shouldn't get involved in their arguments. It is interfering. No-one should be 'in the middle'. If your son is in the middle, he needs to stop trying to keep both parties happy and remember that he forsook all others when he married his wife. That doesn't mean you aren't important, it just means his wife is his primary relationship now. Example: If you want to take the baby overnight, DIL doesn't want that, your son should not be in the middle trying to calm both sides. He should be supporting his wife and telling you no. As hard as it can be, when our children marry, we are no longer their primary relationship and the wants/needs of the mother trump the wants of the GM.

I think you need to look at your own part here a bit. That's not to say they are perfect, of course they aren't, but if you re-read your post, try to see how you are pinning all the responsibility for the perceived problems on your DIL and dismissing what they have told you.

There are a lot of clues in your posts. Even your first post. You say you have to 'push and push' to see your GC. How do you think your S and DIL feel about constantly getting pushed and pushed for access to their child? Your DIL is not answering the phone when you call to see if you can see your GC. What does that tell you? I suspect she isn't answering because she doesn't want you constantly visiting or pushing them.

None of this means your DIL doesn't like you. I don't think she is coming across unfavourably in what you write. I do think she is coming across as someone who needs some space from such frequent visits and being pushed for them.

In the interests of a better relationship, can you discuss with your son what a suitable visiting schedule would be for them? Make it about their needs rather than what your ideal is.

What Oceanmama has advised may be hard for you to acknowledge OP, but I must encourage you to follow her advice.
Based on what’s implied in your posts, up until your GC was 2yo you were getting involved in your sons relationship - that’s interfering no matter how pure your intentions were. A couple is exactly that - 2 people not 2 people and one of their mothers.
Do you have any texts or emails from your DIL that you can look over that might help you recognise where her breaking point was in terms of your relationship? You may not agree with how she views you, your motivation may have been good, but if you do genuinely wish to get back on good terms then recognising where it went wrong is where you begin. Her feelings have been hurt somewhere and unfortunately as much as you may think you’ve done nothing wrong, she obviously feels aggrieved in some way and no-one has the right to tell another person how they should feel, emotions don’t work that way. The same as no-one can tell you that you shouldn’t feel hurt or worried about your situation - what can be done is looking at what happened, make amends to each other and recognise how to not hurt each other’s feelings moving forward.

I think it would be wise to give them some space and stop asking for visits every weekend. It sounds like they need a break from that pressure. If they’re accommodating your requests every three weeks, then try only asking every third week for a visit. Try to show interest in your DIL and son as people also, not just as a means to get to your GC. You are by no means estranged, and it doesn’t sound like your DIL hates you. Honestly, I don’t see people I like on a weekly basis. As a mother of young kids, weekends are precious family time, time to relax, and time to get a break. Being a mom of a toddler is a demanding job. The last thing you want to do every weekend is entertain. If you try to see it more from their perspective, it might be less upsetting and you’ll be able to adjust your expectations. Good luck! I really do hope it gets better for you.

OP, maybe if you had a look on MN you might get an idea of frequently-occurring problems between DIL/ MIL, esp regarding GC.
i don't know your situation, but it does sound as if they want more time to themselves as a family. expecting to visit every weekend is obviously not their wish. so you need to pull back. after all, you do not want to alienate them; then you would never see GC. it is entirely up to them if/ how often they agree for you to see GC. all the best.
by the way, regarding DIL wanting to be with her own mother when she was pregnant, that sounds quite natural and understandable to me.

"Normal" has different meanings to different families

For me, it means visit frequency and lenght remain the same - pre pregnancy vs after baby is here.

A common issue experienced by young families is going from a visit every 2 months with the parents for a quick lunch/ call every 2 weeks vs wanting to visit every weekend and constant pictures and videos

You need to step back and realize you are not part of their marriage. They got married to each other, not to you.

Fights between couples are a private matter to fix between them and you are not in the same middle.

You also say your words are twisted.
It is common to say one thing but be interpreted in a different way by the other party, depending on tone of voice, relationship background, etc.

"How can I help" is friendly and low conflict
"What do you expect me to do" comes across as medium conflict, there is tension in the air with expectations of what and how something should get done

When you say she twists things, you are devaluating her concerns and point of view as not valid.

Give them space. Arrange visits with your son.
You see your gc every 3 weeks which is really good - count your blessings vs pushing for more and pushing them away

The title of the thread is already very exaggerated and inaccurate - if that is what you truly feel, I am sure it comes across in your body language and communication style when you talk to your dil and son.

I’ve read through all of the messages again and see I have further explanations to give. DIL and I spoke after we reconciled and she said that when he was used to me she would be happy with me taking him every week for a couple of hours - it would give her chance to do housework.
When I spoke to my son about how he was treating her it was because she asked me to. I should have said that I’d rather keep out of it but initially they were staying here and I agreed he was still my responsibility (they weren’t and still aren’t married). I think now she realises that me talking to him hasn’t made any difference.
I have never dismissed her feelings when she’s upset but I have been hurt to have my motives misunderstood.
The title of the thread was not explained fully to keep the post short. My GC is not allowed in our house because my husband smokes in his bedroom. We have promised that this will not happen when GC comes and that we would fully ventilate the house but DIL would like the house smoke free for at least a fortnight due to residual smoke. I have fully supported her on this but my husband is very ill and can’t get outside every time he needs to smoke. Also he fully believes DIL would find another reason even if he did stop smoking but I would love it if he would just try. We have my GC in the garden instead (I used to take him to soft play etc pre lockdown) but now I’m not allowed that because he’s toilet trained and can’t come in house for toilet.
I don’t pester with calls and visits. I phone once - she can see missed call. What I mean is that when she doesn’t call back I ask my son about it rather than just giving up.
I have always made it clear that I will fit in around their plans.
I’m not dismissing your comments and agree that I have to take responsibility here. I will certainly be brooding on your input for a while and maybe ask her if she’d prefer I kept visits to once a month.

Yes, the smoking is a big deal. Team dil here
My kids would not enter a place where smoking is allowed.
She is very generous on granting a 2 week period of non smoking.

Do you wait for them to initiate a visit?

"I don’t pester with calls and visits. I phone once - she can see missed call. What I mean is that when she doesn’t call back I ask my son about it rather than just giving up."

That is a bit of a pester. A non verbal answer is a reply, maybe not the reply you would like to get.

Your son and dil dont have to give any reasons why they dont allow visits at your home or whatever they decide for their child- your dh's attitude is very entitled here and he is maybe maybe he is using it not to stop smoking?
Plus, he is very ill and he still smokes? (Side eye)

How long has your dh been smoking?
If that happened when your dil got pregnant, it could be a reason why she moved out of your house and went to her mother's

The amount GP's see their GC does seem to vary a lot from family to family Linmac and I know from our friends that once a month isn't unusual.

Things have changed so much in the majority of cases with both parents working, leaving less family time for themselves. It was certainly a lot different when or boys were little and I was a 'stay at home mum' until they were both in full time education.

Try and keep any frustration you feel to yourself and be as accommodating to their wishes as once the Covid restrictions have been lifted you'll be able to entertain him in your garden again.

Suspect your dil may well have left because of the smoking. It is unpleasant and the smell hangs around for ever, I suspect if your dh smokes regularly indoors you may not notice anymore but others will. It gets ingrained in clothes, carpets, furniture and soft furnishings.
I also think every weekend may be a bit too much to expect.. Why not speak to them. I hope things work out.