DIL hates me and obstructs me seeing GC

OP,

This is nowhere close to estrangement, I would say the opposite

When I first read the OP's posts, I skimmed over this part.

"He goes to her mum’s every Friday night for sleepover."

I read this as GC goes to DIL's mom every Friday for a sleepover. Is that true?

In reading your posts, I dont see a single thing your DIL is doing wrong. She doesnt appear to hate you, nor is she keeping the gc away from you all together. I suspect what you may be feeling is jealousy that her mom has more time with the gc that you do.

For you to get through this, I recommend you look at your own behaviors to see how they might be pushing away the very thing you want. Then take a step back. Build something into you life that will give you fulfillment and take what you can get (especially with COVID) with your gc.

I'm team DIL on the smoking too. My children wouldn't go to any home where smoking takes place inside. I also think this is probably why she moved out when she was pregnant, to protect her growing baby. I full support her in this. This might also be why her baby goes to her mother's home once and not yours, if no-one smokes at her mother's home. I think most mothers would make the same decision these days. My children are mostly grown and I made the same decisions back then relating to smoking.

I don't think your DIL should have asked you to get involved between her and your son. That's an unfair position to put you in.

As far as saying she'd like you to visit once a week so she can get housework done, maybe she changed her mind? Not necessarily because of anything you'd done wrong, but maybe things weren't as she thought they would be, she found it to be too frequent or she didn't have need of it?

When you are with them she does give you time with the GC without supervision, so she does trust you. I'd be grateful to see them every three weeks. IMO, that's quite generous and more than many GPs get.

PS - these are weird times. Hopefully when things settle down again with Covid you'll be able to get back to taking your GC to places like the soft play again. It says a lot that you were allowed to do that with him.

the title of the thread sounds exaggerated.

So instead of actually having the conversation with your son. You use him to nag her to respond to you......

There’s so many threads like this...where expectations are so high, and yet grandparents see themselves as ‘ backing off’. Obviously, what’s a lot of time with grandchildren to some, is no time at all to someone else. As a grandparent, I’ve always tried to show I’m interested, and I care.....but I leave any organisation of any time we spend with grandchildren, to the parents. I don’t think we’ve once initiated anything with the grandchildren, unless it’s to ask about presents or that sort of thing. We expect nothing....and delight in everything. I don’t know whether we would have had the same contact, had we behaved differently, but we see them as much as we would want. We had excellent teachers in how not to behave with adult children! That’s one thing they got right, and has probably benefited us. The smoking thing would have been an absolute no no for us too, along with alcoholism, drugs.....and dogs, particularly big ones. Please just step back, and let them be a family. You, with the rest of us grandparents, are just a spectator now.

Ocean Mama - no, seeing your grandchildren every 3 weeks (assuming a grandparent lives relatively close by} is not nearly frequently enough to establish a bond with the children. As for you see to your parents and I will see to mine, this does appear to happen a lot. I think it is often beneficial when both parents interact with both sets of grandparents and the kids together. This is called family life . I would never have dreamt of not 'attending' to my then husband's parents when they came to call. They would travel from 100 miles away to see us all on a Sunday. I was tense until I had cooked the three course lunch for 9 of us, but used to enjoy chatting to them after that and filling them in on the children. Now I am lucky to have a son his wife and 2 children close by. I am not kept to a visiting schedule but I choose to drop in carefully. I love my daughter-in-law.

Ocean Mama - no, seeing your grandchildren every 3 weeks (assuming a grandparent lives relatively close by} is not nearly frequently enough to establish a bond with the children.

My parents would disagree. They have a very close bond with my children. The three weeks was their suggestion. That worked because we didn't have a lot of other family around who also needed visiting time. Maybe some people have endless energy and never need down time, but I am not one of them.

Thistlelass, good on you for having a great relationship with your DIL. I wish I had the same with my MIL. I managed every part of the relationship with my ILs for 11 years before I finally realised that I didn't deserve the way they treated me, especially with all the effort I was putting forth. I do agree with you that family goes both ways and should be integrated. That is my ideal too. Unfortunately, with my ILs it wasn't possible. I am sorry about that situation but I am also sorry that it took me so long to value myself enough to say 'enough'.

Thistlelass - I must respectfully disagree.

Assuming that the GC come from a 2 parent family with living GP’s on both sides and at least one parent works (as was my situation) when exactly do you expect that family to do anything together as a nuclear family?
Every 2/3 weeks is ample. Realistically with 2 sets of GP (plus any aunts/uncles) to fit in “quality time with” any more than that means that every weekend is taken up by visiting GP’s/family and I was not willing to commit to that (for either side) after trying to keep everyone happy when my DC were babies/toddlers and making no-one happy.

So, I may be viewed as selfish, but IMO it’s far more important for parents to spend quality time with their children than it is to have GP’s included in everything. That’s not to say my DC don’t have an excellent relationship with their GP’s (they only have my mum/dad/papa alive now) and as they are older have independent relationships with both the GP and my DC making the effort to stay in touch etc. so I think the proof is in the pudding in that they have bonded and have lovely relationships.

It sounds as though your son needs more 'encouragement' to be a proper father and provide for his family. He should be working towards getting a home for the three of them so they can live together instead of the current impractical arrangement. I think your DIL's view of you will always be coloured by your son's limitations.

Thistlelass

Ocean Mama - no, seeing your grandchildren every 3 weeks (assuming a grandparent lives relatively close by} is not nearly frequently enough to establish a bond with the children. As for you see to your parents and I will see to mine, this does appear to happen a lot. I think it is often beneficial when both parents interact with both sets of grandparents and the kids together. This is called family life . I would never have dreamt of not 'attending' to my then husband's parents when they came to call. They would travel from 100 miles away to see us all on a Sunday. I was tense until I had cooked the three course lunch for 9 of us, but used to enjoy chatting to them after that and filling them in on the children. Now I am lucky to have a son his wife and 2 children close by. I am not kept to a visiting schedule but I choose to drop in carefully. I love my daughter-in-law.

I totally disagree. My best friend's young children have an incredibly close bond with her parents even though they live on the opposite side of the world. It's about personalities, not proximity.

no, seeing your grandchildren every 3 weeks (assuming a grandparent lives relatively close by} is not nearly frequently enough to establish a bond with the children

That seems such a dogmatic statement about relationships that differ according to personalities and circumstances. There are no hard and fast rules. Bonding with children takes time, bonds vary but are equally valid, and children adapt according to circumstances.

no, seeing your grandchildren every 3 weeks (assuming a grandparent lives relatively close by} is not nearly frequently enough to establish a bond with the children

I fully disagree with this. My in-laws live 45 minutes away. We see them maybe once a month? We all get along great and my kids absolutely love their granny pig and grandpa pig. We have our own lives and they have theirs. My parents of course demanded twice weekly visits (and the kids without us around). We don't see them at all anymore.

OceanMama, I am intrigued you thought it ok to only see your grandma only a couple of times in you life and think that's fine. You have children, when they leave home and have their families, are you saying you can just be happy with what amounts to no contact. I have been lucky my own children and grandchildren were a big part if our lives. Now I am almost nc with my daughter and wish I and my husband had put our interests first, we were always baby sitting etc, but at the time we loved it. Now on my own, very much not part of the family it's left a big hole. I wish I was like you and the others who obviously can let go.My own parents and in laws were very much involved with my children, it did become a bit much but I could never hurt their feeling. My mil got very stroppy and caused a scene once when my daughter went to a party and she wanted to just turn up, in was like the wicked witch because I said no, she stomped off. I let it go to save estrangement because in other ways she was good. I look back and know I was always the peacemaker and hated discord and arguments.

I read so often on here about parents/parents in law "demanding" visits, having strops, sulking, creating atmospheres, lecturing, ignoring "rules" for grandchildren, stomping off etc etc. I find it quite astounding.

Sparkling, I actually don't think it was fine that I only saw my grandmother twice in my life. No, I wouldn't be happy to have no contact with my children. What I don't have is expectations about my role as a gma. I've sent you a PM with more detail.

Thank you so much Ocean Mama.?

Madgran77

I read so often on here about parents/parents in law "demanding" visits, having strops, sulking, creating atmospheres, lecturing, ignoring "rules" for grandchildren, stomping off etc etc. I find it quite astounding.

i agree.
some seem to expect that DILs will almost literally dance attendance upon them; i have visions of them exiting the presence backwards, with an extra curtsy before disappearing at the doorway, to scurry around fetching sweetmeats etc for the esteemed great mother.

welbeck Not only expected of DILs though.

However I have to say that I also read on here of equally astounding demands/expectations made by adult children/inlaws of parents/inlaws.

Overall it is sad, particularly when such behaviours from any party results in estrangement or someone struggling to try and avoid estrangement. ?

Yes it's very sad Madgran.

“No, seeing your grandchildren every 3 weeks (assuming a grandparent lives relatively close by} is not nearly frequently enough to establish a bond with the children.”

This is a ridiculous statement if I ever read one. It is this type of selfish and stubborn attitude that leads to estrangement. I don’t want to see my own parents every week, let alone anyone else’s. My parents wouldn’t dream of requesting that amount of time from us nor do I think they would blame my husband if he refused it. They understand that we have jobs, friends, housework, hobbies and other responsibilities in addition to necessary private family time on our own.

The double standard against DILs is outrageous and it is this kind of unyielding all or nothing attitude that leads us to finally say “Enough is enough. If you can’t form a bond with our kids with no less than x amount of visits, you’re simply not meant to be in their life at all.” I’ll choose taking the blame and having some peace of mind over the endless guilt trips and weekly invasions.

I saw my grans very infrequently because plane tickets were exceedingly expensive in those days. We didn’t have video technology and long distance calls were every few weeks only. Decades later I still miss my beloved grandparents and have photos of them placed in honor in my home. If that isn’t an established bond, I don’t know what is.

The double standard against DILs is outrageous and it is this kind of unyielding all or nothing attitude that leads us to finally say “Enough is enough

Double standards to any particular "group" are outrageous and sadly, are demonstrated sometimes.rs on GNet

How lovely re your grandparents Amelia, I remember mine similarly and was abroad for most of my childhood. Its nit distance, number of visits. Its quality time when possible, building particular happy memories.