Having a weak moment

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smileless your message 11/02/2021
It’s approximately 6 months since those messages and l have to say from my very strong gut feeling it’s taken 6 months for me and my daughter to be out. My daughter isn’t even in the country and rarely has of late had any contact with her brother.
These young women have zero emotional intelligence due to their own previous life problems and they put them on our soft kind and empathetic son’s convincing them that we are the problem. X

The good thing about this and other estrangement threads on GN is that they provide a place for both EAC and EP's to share their experiences.

I agree Freedomfromthepast that sites exclusively for either group as well as providing much needed support and understanding, can also prevent any insight into estrangement from the other perspective.

This is a great thread, the title chosen by nananet draws attention to an emotion, "a weak moment" that I'm sure, many who are living with estrangement experience.

I posted earlier about how after almost 8 years, we received an email from our ES a couple of days after my mum died and one of the responses was that perhaps he had had a weak moment of his own.

I hadn't thought of it like that until I read that post and when I did, it made perfect sense to me. His short email began with him saying that he didn't know whether to contact us or not, so even though he went ahead, he wasn't sure if it was the right thing to do.

No one wants to be inundated with emails, text messages, letters, cards and or flowers from the person they've estranged. We've not sent a birthday card to our ES since he estranged us.

If, out of the blue something arrives from the person/people you've estranged, it might be more palatable to see it as a moment of weakness that doesn't have to be responded too.

The sender may well be unsure if it's the right thing to do, just as nananet was in her OP. There's the risk that whatever is sent will be returned or prompt an angry and bitter response or simply be ignored.

I chose to respond because I appreciated how much it took for him to get in touch and I didn't want him to experience that deafening and heart breaking silence.

Freedom and Armadillo, no one would deny that if you were abused as a child you would cease contract with that person. I can think of nothing worse than your own mother rejecting you, never mind abusing you. I wonder how you ever develop any self esteem and confidence. You have both gone on and had families and value and want to protect your children from what you suffered. So well done for doing that. However there us another side if estrangement, many grandparents, who did their best as parents and loved their children to bits, are estranged for some perceived slight or wrong word, it can be as simple as that. Who knows why. Imagine those children of yours,whom you protect from your mother, ever turning on you. You think it's impossible when you gave a good relationship and the loves there, but it happens. The heartbreak is indescribable. I think however, not to have a safe and loving childhood the worst.

I have almost responded to this thread several times, then changed my mind. I am not sure any good can come out of an EAC responding on a thread like this. But here I am, responding.

If I have asked you not to contact me, that means no contact. No letter, flowers, texts, phone calls, etc. There is no loophole that makes contact ok. I did not say, I dont want you to contact me EXCEPT cards on holidays. Nor did I say, I do not want contact EXCEPT when you send flowers to make yourself feel better.

My point by posting the above comment is to share the viewpoint of an EAC. In all the cases that I have heard from other EAC, contact after asking not to be contacted does not lead to good tidings.

But, of course, each situation is its own and of course each person must make their own decisions. I am hopeful that the person making decisions sits down and thinks through the possible consequences before making contact.

Anyhow, the reason I decided to post is to say thank you to Armadillo for posting the information on that site. It is very difficult as an EAC, and I am sure an EP, to find information that is unbiased against the other party. What I have commonly seen are sites that are for one group or the other. It is easy to put blinders on, for both sides, and only want to hear support or opinions from supporters.

As I stated in another thread, all relationships are tricky and, IMO, one of the best things we can all do is to stop the shame of enstrangement on both sides. We ALL need support and by talking about this (same as other topics like mental health) we are getting it out in the open.

So many of us feel as though we are the only estranged person on the face of the earth. And that simply is not true. We shouldnt be hiding in shame because a relationship has ended in estrangement.

I think it will also go a long way if we open up the conversation from both points of view.

I know this as I have had abusive relationships in the past because of what my mum taught me was normal but I know now how this was wrong. If things hadn't changed and I hadn't had access to the Internet I would still be in horrible relationships so there is hope for the future and I hope you can all get some comfort from that and don't get stuck in the past.
I hope you all feel better. I have found a really good website for estrangement where no one is made to feel like they need to feel bad for being estranged or worry about being estranged like a lottery called Stand Alone for anyone who wants to look at that. There are people working to end estrangement through education and positive change and laws protecting abuse victims and training for people to spot it and help.

It meticulously detailed how, little by little, the victim is so diminished and unsure of their ability to do anything at all without the management and coercion of their manipulator, or because they become well versed in the consequences of what will happen if they disobey or displease; they do anything and everything to appease. Obviously it was a soap drama but it brilliantly articulated how families can be fractured irrevocably by one person

It did Chewbacca ...and demonstrated exactly what can happen to anyone, in certain circumstances

Smiless so it’s not just you and Mr S your dil had also banished her own parents!
I feel for your son being embroiled in this marriage and it’s my belief that one day he will wake up and see what has happened to his life.
As for me l’ll continue pulling the eggshells out of the soles of my feet for the time being.
At least now I feel l have some insight into this subject and will know where to bring my problems if it happens to me.

It went on for about a year and was very harrowing Smileless. Rob started off as kind, loving and attentive but soon started to separate Helen from her family and friends; always "for her own good" of course. It meticulously detailed how, little by little, the victim is so diminished and unsure of their ability to do anything at all without the management and coercion of their manipulator, or because they become well versed in the consequences of what will happen if they disobey or displease; they do anything and everything to appease. Obviously it was a soap drama but it brilliantly articulated how families can be fractured irrevocably by one person.

I didn't know that Chewbacca I've never listened to the Archers. It's great that radio and tv programs cover these issues especially as it helps to take away the stigma that so many victims feel and enables them to come forward.

Adults, just like children can be and are groomed by their abuser.

And it's so common that a whole storyline revolved around exactly such a scenario on the Archers for more than a year (Helen & Rob). And that opened the doors to thousands of people going public who had experienced this themselves, or had a family member who had/was living in a similarly coercive relationship.

Adults, just like children can be and are groomed by their abuser. Over a period of time they're alienated from family and friends, anyone who may be able to see what's really going on and alert the victim.

It's an impossible situation for parents.When they can see that something isn't right what can they do, especially if their AC is married and there are children involved?

A very good description of the issues Smileless

Sometimes people wont ask a question because they don't want to hear the answer.

Growing up with abuse is different because as a child, that is your 'normal', it's usually only when you're older that you realise there was nothing normal about it at all.

Adults, just like children can be and are groomed by their abuser. Over a period of time they're alienated from family and friends, anyone who may be able to see what's really going on and alert the victim.

It's an often impossible situation for parents. When they can see that something isn't quite right what can they do, especially if their AC is married and there are children involved?

Theres another question and if I get estranged I wouldn't think it wasn't my fault which isn't the same but I don't know how to say what I mean.

I don't get why people put words in your mouth instead of just asking a question.
We can't protect from dangers we don't know can we but there is more education now because we have the Internet and we have laws about domestic violence and things. I didn't know any red flags growing up and if bad things happened people didn't talk about it like they do now like Me too.
That's really stressful as I didn't say anything unkind to anyone and I wouldn't do that.

Smileless
Thankyou, I know she can be tricky, but we just have tread carefully, I know that for you and so many others, things are so much worse.

Well despite the need for egg shell walking Sara which can't be easy, it does sound as if you have a great D there to be proud of.

"My ever patient husband" is good at calming things down too; aren't we lucky.

Another term I've heard for a grievance collector is gunnysacking. I love this term because of the mental image. Basically, gunnysacking is when you fill your metaphorical gunnysack with all of your grievances and then when there is a disagreement, you open the gunnysack and spew them all out.

From that night onward we got on really well Nicegranny. She would pop round for coffee on her own. Her and I went shopping together for her shoes for their wedding day. She told me she loved me and wished I'd been her mum!!

Her relationship with her parents was difficult and she fell out with them before the wedding, so they decided to get married abroad so they wouldn't be there.

I talked to her about this, asked if she was sure as she may regret it when the time comes but she was adamant so, that's what they did and the only guests there were myself and
Mr. S.

That's how it was, it was great or at least that's how we thought it was, until she became pregnant. There were so many 'red flags' looking back but I still thought we had a good relationship. It was small, silly things to begin with which got worse once our GC was born. Within 11 months of him being born, we were out.

So, from that night I'd say it took about 3.5 years. I thought it was an odd thing to say and that there was a degree of seriousness and intent about it, but we had such a wonderful relationship with our son, it never entered my head that anything or anyone could ever destroy what we had.

Es wife

Smiless
“only child syndrome and l don’t share”
So that once future dil let you know in advance that you were in time going to be challenged! It was deliberately done by her.
I think you know already that I have this fear because of my experience from the day my son and his gf (now fiancé) moved into their own house together and other behaviour.
How long did it take your Ed wife to exclude you from the day of the engagement?
That is if it’s not too painful for you to say.
Did you realise at the time it was a warning of things to come?

Smileless
My ever patient husband calmed things down, but she did say some quite hurtful things.
The thing is, she’s done everything right, worked hard at school, university, marriage, lovely home, children, her sister, has undoubtedly made a lot of mistakes, but is a very good mum, and works hard, we help out with the children, but we would do exactly the same for her if she didn’t live 200 miles away. We have made dozens of journeys over the years for school plays, carol concerts, hockey matches, but none of that is taken into account.
Don’t misunderstand me, she is a lovely funny girl, until lockdown we all spent lots of time together, and this year all being well, we are all having a big family holiday.
But we definitely walk on eggshells.

"they didn't see any dangers because none were there to be identified in that loving, caring, person they they thought they knew ... until the realised they didn't know them as gradually and insidiously things changed" so well put Madgran and sums up our relationship with our ES's wife perfectly.

It's a very difficult situation Sara.