Son and DIL won't see me any more

Perhaps Madgran.

But at the centre of this is a small boy (now a man) who has been thrown to the wolves and scapegoated his entire life.

In fact, all persons in the story have been abused. The DH, the OP, the DD and the DS.

I am not ignorant about the effects of coercive control on an individual, nor am I ignorant about the effects of child abuse on an individual.

If the son were abusing his children, or allowing his wife to do so, no one would be making excuses for him on account of the abuse he experienced as a child.

No one is excusing the DH on account of the abuse he experienced as a child and no one is excusing the DD either.

Why is it different for the OP?

Even now, the OP can’t muster up an ounce of empthay for her son.

Coercion or not, we are all responsible for our own actions (or inactions in this case).

She has caused tremendous pain to her son and ultimately, she is responsible for that.

GG65 what you are describing are classic signs of someone who is being coercively controlled and is unable to se the wood for the trees or to think logically!

This was incredibly difficult to read.

It is clear that your husband was abusive, and that your daughter is too, but reading you narrate the history of your current situation is disturbing to me as you seem to regard yourself as some kind of third party, who’s actions (or rather, inactions) have no bearing on anything. You take no responsibility for any of the events leading to your situation.

Of course, you are not a third party, but you are your son’s mother who he naturally looked to for protection, safety and love. You have not protected him and whether there has been coercion or not, you have failed in your responsibility to your son. You passivity is essentially collusion in the scapegoating of him which has been perpetuated by all of you.

I cannot even begin to imagine how your son feels. Your poor, poor boy.

Inheritance does not have to count as a marital asset. Depending on where you are in the UK it isn’t included in divorce proceedings if it has not been used as a marital asset.

That's the problem with coercive control gt66. You're right, all money and assets within a marriage are classed as joint but if you have a controlling and manipulative partner, you can very easily relinquish your control without being aware that that is what you're doing.

......DH got some money from the sale of his late mother's house, so not my decision what he does with it

This jumped out at me, along with other comments regarding money. It's clear the OP husband was in control of their finances, but, as far as I'm aware, I thought that all money/assets in a marriage are classed as joint and you should've had a say in how they were used.

It also shows a degree of ignorance about coercive control Chewbacca.

Bluebell, you described the OP as being far too enmeshed, and that is spot in. She has been for the majority, if not all of her adult life enmeshed in an abusive coercive relationship, first with her H, then with her H and D and now with her D.

Your perception of 'normal' Asdf does not allow you to even consider the possibility that what you see as your D's help may well be a continuation of the control she has over you.

In an earlier post, I suggested you look for counselling. As Disco has rightly posted, you need to talk through your family history with a third party. You are a victim as is your son and it's your victim status that prevents you from seeing what has really been happening for years.

The damage that has been done to your relationship with your son may never be repaired but at the very least, if you are able to acknowledge the abuse he has suffered and your part in it, however unwittingly, you will then be able to apologise for what actually happened, and not what you think happened.

In so doing, you'll be able to regain control over your own life and break this cycle of abuse once and for all.

I went to bed last night still festering and fretting over this post. Please, OP, give yourself a good shake and move forward from the past.

Get some little notelets, send one to your son every week - simple line of "Thinking of you, love Mum". "You're in my thoughts, love Mum". Do that please.
Listen to yourself and nobody else.
Age Concern - is there one near you that you can talk to?
Think. Is it possible your friendly councillor is talking to your daughter about your sessions?
You look after your daughters child/children - unpaid, I expect. Do you have time to make friends outside of your daughter and her family? Do you have any other friends - not to talk to about this stuff specifically, but just to spend time with? I'm concerned you have "all your eggs in one basket",
Do you think a meet - coffee, maybe a trip to the cinema - with your DIL would be possible, just you and her? No family chatter other than about your grandchildren? Get to know her one-on-one.

There's so much you can put right now, wouldn't it be good to do that for yourself?

What a very sad story. You have been manipulated all your married life by your late husband and daughter. I have some sympathy with you inasmuch that your confidence and self esteem have obviously been eroded over the years.

But you are now free of your husband, albeit not your daughter. Now is the time for you to set your own agenda and take back control. Also how fortunate that your dear, abused son has met and married a strong, lovely woman and has his own family.

It is perfectly understandable why he has decided to step away from his birth family. You need to reflect on all this, completely independently from your controlling daughter. And get help from an independent counsellor, not someone who is friendly with your daughter.

When you've worked through where you've gone wrong, then that is the time to get in touch with your dear son. He may be generous to reinstate contact with you. I believe however the relationship with his sister is beyond repair, for obvious reasons.

Wise advice Disco

OP, I do think you have been manipulated and treated with absolute contempt to the point that you can no longer separate reality from fantasy, and you need outside independent help for this. A complete stranger who no one in your family knows, and you should see that ‘ help’ alone.
There is bad spirit moving through your family. Probably from way back, but we know your husband was abused. He went on to cut your brother out, and together with your daughter, turn against your son and DIL, who it seems have done nothing wrong. Your daughter is now the manipulator, and will most likely transfer it to her child/children.
It’s all about money, and your daughter is just biding her time I’m afraid. Your husband was a good ‘ teacher’ by the sounds of it.
Please get neutral help with this before you lose everything. It sounds like your son is happy and settled with a lovely wife and family. Why on earth would he risk all that to see people who, in his eyes, have spent so much time and energy stopping him getting things.?
I also don’t understand how he is in this position, if he was an executor of his dad’s Will. There are legal obligations here, so he should have been involved.
It almost sounds like you’ve been spectating all these years. Now it’s time for you to take part, to ensure this doesn’t carry on after you’ve died.
Put it right with your son now.

Asdf, what do you think is the problem here?

Asdf

@Grannyben it was some money DH got from the sale of his late mother's house so not my decision what he does with it.

I miss my DS if he doesn't want to talk to me right now I should just leave it. He knows he can come back any time because I haven't told him to go. I just find it hard I shouldn't have to choose sides.

If he phones me or knocks on the door I'd talk to him like there had been no estrangement and carry on like normal.

Oh, OP - please reread that last sentence. Practically all of the advice you’ve had on this thread has pointed out to you that your “normal” has been hurtful at best, and many would class abusive towards him. I very much doubt that without a change in behaviour and an acknowledgement of how badly he has been treated that there is a possibility of reconciliation.

Please don’t think I’m trying to be hurtful, as I said earlier in this thread you have been financially coerced. But if you genuinely want a relationship with your son and his family I very much doubt you’ll ever be able to go “back to normal”, what was normal in your family wasn’t healthy or acceptable behaviour.

I'm ignoring nothing M0nica. I'm in complete and total agreement with the majority of replies on here, including your own post that the OP has been blind to the injustices she's meted out to her son and, as a result, has been largely responsible for the position she finds herself in now. What I take issue with is for one poster to refer to the OPs husband and daughter as hideous and that the OP was as bad. That's not a constructive comment, it offers no insight or advice; it's just a knee jerk insult.

Chewbacca You are ignoring the fact that despite all theposts that have been objective, helpful and written with care and consideration for OP and her son This lady still persists in seeing her son as the problem, and continues to be wax in the hand of her DD.

Throughout her life she has been happy to throw her son to the lions, whenever her husband or daughter demanded it, she has never protected him or defended him and now he has decided enough is enough, she blames his wife!!

It’s not cruel. The OP, has her whole life, buried her head in the sand.
Her own son wasn’t enough for her to take a stand. But above all the most important thing has been her comfort.

And she’s plodding along thinking it will always be rosy. Because she ain’t looking at the whole picture. The odds are her daughter will chose the money over her.

AmberSpyglass

Your husband and daughter were/are hideous and you went along for an easy life, which makes you just as bad. Your DS is, frankly, better off without you.

You know your DD won’t be there to care for you in your old age, don’t you? None of that money is being ringfenced for your care. I hope you don’t expect your DS to step up.

AmberSpyglass I've read every post on this thread and so many have been objective, helpful and written with care and consideration for OP and her son. But your post was so cruel, mean and spiteful and was written with the sole intention to wound. Shame on you.

I find the behaviour of this OP defies belief. I really believe that when she started this thread she thought we would sympathise with her and agree how badly her DS and DiL were behaving towards her.

Her capacity for kidding herself that she is the poor maligned one and then saying the most outrageous things about her son and wife astonishes me.

At one point she says I don't think Dil is evil she's a good little mum and she's always looked after my son who has a medical condition. They have been together for many years and she is a very strong woman.

In other words your DiL is not prepared to collude with the OP and knuckle down under the DD's rule, who I would suggest is also 'a very strong woman'.

Your DS has acted with a wisdom that is amazing considering the home he grew up in. He has met and married a woman, who despite her own dysfunctional bckground could also rise above it and recognised your DS's stirling qualities and together they have stayed the course, weathered the storms that face two people with their background. They are happy together and they are bringing up their children together.

It is a sign of their maturity that they have decided to turn their back on you and your dominating bully of a daughter. Your daughter has it in for them because she is jealous of them, that your DS instead of playing the part of under dog to your daughter's top dog, has made his own life on his own terms and is part of a long-lasting and happy marriage, something she has singularily failed to achieve.

Later on you say If he phones me or knocks on the door I'd talk to him like there had been no estrangement and carry on like normal. You have got this entiely the wrong way. When you have gained independence from your daughter, put your financial affairs in the hands of an advisor independent of your daughter and sought councilling from a councillor you have found independently or through your GP, you can then contact your son, apologise for the lifetime of abuse he has received from you, as much as his father and sister, and apologise to him and ask him to forgive you and resume contact.

Asdf. You asked for advice and you have had many responses. It’s up to you now, you can break this cycle and make a better relationship with your son and family,if they are agreeable, or else carry on as before. It’s all in your hands. I wish you well.

You have acknowledged that your husband and daughter have consistently been unpleasant to your son and his partner and have said horrible things about them.

I should think the last straw was when your son explained how he and his partner felt about their treatment and you denied it. Furthermore, your husband and daughter seemed to be overly concerned about property and money in what I consider to be a very unhealthy way.

I really don't know where you go from here as I can understand how hurt your son is and why he has cut off contact. In my view, you should have acknowledged past hurts and expressed regret for allowing your husband and daughter to behave in such an unfair and unkind way without challenging them.

I wouldn't be too convinced about your daughter crying, saying she no longer has a brother. If she were that bothered, she wouldn't have ganged up against him with your husband.

FFS You do not get it do you? Your son has been treated disgracefully by the three of you, you cannot carry on as normal, too much damage has been done.
This has to be my last post as it is making me angry and anxious at the memories it is bringing back for me.
You say you should not have to choose sides, you already have by keeping quiet because it

suited you and defending that manipulative daughter of yours.

You have already chosen a side.

Don’t you feel any kind of remorse or regret for the way you have treated your son?

Poor little boy. Poor lad. Poor man.

I’m glad he has made a family of his own to love him as he deserves.

I don’t think the author will stand back and look at her daughters behaviour as she is far too enmeshed and unable to see anything but wonder, for this abusive child and user, born of an abusive husband
The amount of money being thrown around sounds massive 80 grand here and there houses left right and centre certainly not brought any happiness to anyone has it?

Your son and daughter in law sound sensible and have removed themselves from it all and I hope they have a very happy life without you in it You’ve pinned your flag to the flag post of your choice I feel for you, when you can’t be helpful to your abusive daughter you ll be dropped like a hot cake

A counsellor should NEVER be your friend ...outrageous

@Grannyben it was some money DH got from the sale of his late mother's house so not my decision what he does with it.

I miss my DS if he doesn't want to talk to me right now I should just leave it. He knows he can come back any time because I haven't told him to go. I just find it hard I shouldn't have to choose sides.

If he phones me or knocks on the door I'd talk to him like there had been no estrangement and carry on like normal.