Never dreamt this could happen

I think the Op has done a runner.

I beginning to think this is what happens when our children turn into adults ?they will move away find their partners and then live own lives! If lucky will remember us sometimes but don’t count on it??

Well yes, absolutely, if we have "given them wings" they will and should fly the nest, find partners and live their lives. None of which is the same as estrangement.

"If a website is specifically focused on parents who have been estranged the stories will be from their perspective .."so many"! If a website is specifically focused on ACs who have estranged the stories will be from their perspective, .."so many!" If it is a general estrangement site like GN, stories will be mixed."

I agree. And my point was that when one is posting on a site that ends up being an echo chamber, it does no one any good. Which is why I believe an open discussion is important. That, it seems, is hard to have on GN because, I believe from my experience, that posting as an EAC is often shut down as invalidating.

In just this thread alone, several poster and long term members of GN said that they were blamed for something they did not do "evil DIL syndrome". That was met with "but it was true in my case and by posting your experience here it invalidated mine" This has happened before on the Estrangement boards. It then leads to EAC apologizing for their experience, thus invalidating their own experience. As witnessed in this very thread.

It appears to me, based also on previous threads I have read here, that the EP experience trumps the EAC experience. I fully believe that there are EAC waiting in the wings, afraid to talk openly because of experiences such as on this thread. This is my opinion based on my experience. Each poster will have a unique experience, just as each estrangement is a different experience. It is also my opinion that without open and honest discussion from BOTH sides, estrangement will not get better. It is also my opinion that is not anyone else's job to validate another person. Especially when such validation invalidates our own experience.

Who gets to decide what is being posted on threads in an open discussion forum? Who gets to decide what is helpful when talking about a broader estrangement issue, as I was? Heck, who gets to decide what broader topics are allowed to be discussed?

I think we SHOULD talk openly about the MIL blame, just as we should the DIL blame. Because NEITHER are cut and dry. In my post I said that I feel that it is mismatched expectations that cause many (NOT ALL) estrangements. That does not make either side "bad".

Maybe what we should be discussing is the fact that women are held to a higher standard and held more responsible for relationships, thus resulting in misplaced blame.

Wait.... Nevermind. I tried that earlier on this thread.

Shirlb, I think your post is spot on. I don’t think a lot of our children generally do things for duty like we did. You don’t have to have had words they just find they are busy with their lives and their friends and we come way down the list. I know lots of families who love spending time together. There are of course many adults older and younger who are controlling and jealous of their partners loyalty and love to parents or to their child when they take a partner. I might as well be estranged for the contact I have and it hurts to know I don’t matter. My dad had the best idea, just ring me when you’ve a mind and enjoy your life, however I never went a week without spending time with him, he was so important to me and I loved him very much, he was however very busy and went on lots of mini breaks and loved walking in different areas, he was well read and happy with his own company.

Sparkling
Your dad sounds wonderful, and I think it’s what we should all say to our adult children, because after all , they are adults, they build a whole new life, and we are now on the edge, not at the centre.
We have had moments with one child, which could have caused a rift, but thanks to my husband’s never ending kindness and diplomacy, we have always pulled back.
But I think with our adult grandchildren, the ones we don’t live close to, we will gradually see less and less of, no falling out, just a gradual distancing, it doesn’t make me sad, if they are happy in life, that’s good enough for me.

My observation over several years on GN has been that sometimes MiLs/Parents get "shutdown"/driven away by the nature/style of responses to their posts. Sometimes EAC's get shutdown/driven away by the nature/style of responses to their posts. And sometimes posters from both groups provide support, hard but kindly expressed messages, empathy, constructive criticism, understanding to each other.

Sometimes posters get driven away because they simply can't cope if they don't hear what they want to hear.

Sometimes how things are expressed cause upsets because of emotions on an emotional subject. Sometimes how things are expressed provide lessons to be learnt.

I believe there may well be EACs waiting in the wings; there may well be estranged parents/MILs doing the same, from what I have observed.

Yes there should be open and honest debate. Invalidation is felt when someone feels disbelieved, rightly or wrongly; how things are expressed makes a huge difference.

For a while now there have been threads started by EACs or ACs struggling and looking for advice regarding parents or inlaws; at the same time there have been threads started by EPs or parents who fear estrangement. Both types of thread have provided support, advice, comment without any poster getting upset, arguing, resulting in OPs thanking posters for their help.

It's a shame when that doesnt happen on a thread because the "sides" approach creeps in and arguments start.

Velaine, I am certainly no expert but have experienced the vagaries of family relationships over the years. Just concentrate on your life with your Oh - if son gets back in touch that's great - if not, then he is living his life the way he wants and you should do the same. The first few weeks are the worst but you can get through this ?

I don’t have a problem with ‘the controlling DiL narrative’ because I have twice known it to happen. For some reason best known to herself, but to nobody else, the DiL has been determined from the start to hate her in-laws and to turn her formerly family-loving husband against them completely.

I’m not saying it doesn’t happen in reverse - a controlling SiL narrative - but I haven’t heard of any such cases.

Witzend, those cases sound like something you have heard second hand. The DIL has a different way of relating to family so she's had an agenda to alienate her husband from his family. Okay then, if you say so.

I am both a MIL and my husband is estranged from his family. My MIL would give a similar narrative to what you've just given but I know how much effort I put forward. I lose no sleep at all over that situation. So far, as a MIL, I do the opposite of my MIL. It works so far.

Good advice dellygran

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Cafe, I think your comment about raising spineless sons judgemental, you don't know the facts, perhaps he has put his point over strongly, but risks his marriage and children if his partner has her mind set against it, then he would lose contact and end up with half of everything. I know there are mil from hell, there are daughters too. There are many reasons or excuses for lack of contact. I hardly know a family where there is no contact with a family member, say a brother or sister, are they all spineless. It takes two. People estranged feel bad enough not judgement and the support to carry on with some self respect. Believe me when you do see families getting on together it's hard not to feel sad.

Sparkling, I agree with you. I asked gransnet to remove it before you posted as I thought it was stated a bit harshly.

I also agree there are daughters from hell too. Difficult people are exclusive to one generation. I'm just against the generalisations.

BTW, I did not estrange my MIL. I have never estranged any family members on either side. It's not my personal responsibility that we are estranged and it wasn't my choice. Someone even said to me once that it obviously bothered me more than my husband. That was a good wake up and very helpful. But I still feel judged by the DIL blaming narrative. I think I'd be a great DIL to someone who wanted to be friends.

"Difficult people are exclusive to one generation." Darn. That should say NOT exclusive to one generation. Unfortunate typo.

No difficult people are not exclusive to one generation, and I think you probably need a combination of both, to get to the point of being estranged.
Mostly people just try and rub along, but I think sometimes, expectations from our generation are way too high, our children have to go and make their own lives, and their new family will, and should always take priority.
We do not own our children, and God knows, I wouldn’t want my children visiting me out of a sense of duty.

I think you could be right Amberone which having just re read the OP is a shame because she came here looking for advice on how to cope with her estrangement from her son, and losing contact with her GC.

Threads do meander which is both understandable and can be a positive thing but this thread wasn't started as a general discussion about estrangement, and it would appear that despite some of the posts made, the OP hasn't found the advice and support she was looking for.

It's very cruel to post where EP's are posting about the sons they have lost that they've been raised to be spineless. It wouldn't be said about an EP's D if she were being coerced by her male partner.

It would never be said and never should be that an AC who has estranged abusive and dysfunctional parents is spineless for not continuing with the relationship.

As children leave home and start their adult lives which often results in them raising families of their own, it's understandable that we their parents see less if them and the amount of contact we have reduces.

That's nothing like estrangement when you simply no longer exist. No 'phone calls, text messages or cards. You hope that they and their children are well and happy but you have no idea if that's the case.

GP's who once had regular contact with their GC no longer see them and those children have had their GP's who they know and love, taken away from them.

I agree that there is a place for a broader discussion on estrangement but a thread that has been started by someone looking for support, and/or a thread that is there to offer support for anyone living with estrangement, is not the place.

These threads are not echo chambers, they are started for a specific reason and those who post there should be able to do so without fear of harshly expressed judgement and sweeping generalisations which invalidate what they're going through.

Thank you Cafe. I think whenever problems occur, estrangement particularly, it’s so hard, that when the high emotions have been cried out a lot, you do what you have always done and be true to yourself, don’t let it consume you as you can’t make anyone want you that doesn’t, or see you if they don’t want to, hard as it is, in your heart wish them well think I’ve done my best, they know I’m always here for them and you will never stop loving them, I’ve told them often enough. Get the best life made for yourself that you can, be busy, loving to those you care about, that care about you, talk to that person in the bus queue always on their own, be aware of others, you have to think outside the painful bubble you can end up in. People on the whole are kind and you can move on and be happy. My heart goes out to all living with estrangement, it can be a lonely place.

*I think sometimes, expectations from our generation are way too high, our children have to go and make their own lives, and their new family will, and should always take priority.
We do not own our children, and God knows, I wouldn’t want my children visiting me out of a sense of duty.*

True, but this does not relate to estrangement which is something very different even to visiting out of duty.

I watched my mother disengage from her family over a period of years because my grandparents (grandmother especially) would disparage my father to my mother (and the grandkids!). His family was of a "lower class," he was "too loud," he "deliberately took a job and moved us all out of town" things like that. I don't even think my grandmother thought she was being mean, but it was a lot to hear. So in my grandmother's mind, she probably could honestly say that she did "nothing" and my father forced us away from her. Just a thought. It might be all OP's son's decision based on the perceived or actual treatment of his wife by his family.

I hope in some way Velaine the replies have been of some help and give you some confidence, knowing you are not alone in your situation.

That could be the case TinFoilTiara but of so, why not talk about the issues and try and find a solution. Walking away doesn't make the issues go away, it simply means that you don't have to deal with them.

If there's a genuine concern that GC will hear things about one or other of their parents from angry and frustrated GP's then don't leave the GC alone with them. If a d.i.l. or s.i.l. no longer wants to have a relationship with their in laws then why does that necessitate their husbands or wives having to cut off not just their parents, but in many cased their entire family?

I hope so too Sparkling. It really does help knowing that you're not alone and that some if not all what you're experiencing, has been and is experienced by others.

* If there's a genuine concern that GC will hear things about one or other of their parents from angry and frustrated GP's then don't leave the GC alone with them*

That is absolutely ridiculous. If a grown adult can not hold their tongue around a child then the parents are more than within their rights to protect their child.

It isn't ridiculous it's one way of taking control and avoiding the pain of estrangement for all concerned, in particular children who are suddenly deprived of their GP's.

As is said over and over again on this topic, it's the rights of the children that should be considered and where possible protected and not just the rights of the parents.

Of course it’s control. It’s their children. Not a time share apartment.
They don’t need to justify to anyone. And anyone I had to supervise my child with outside of health issues wouldn’t see my child.

And again. If an adult can’t hold their tongue then the child is better off without them.
I think at times the role of Grandparents can be grossly exaggerated here.

Why do grandparents want the control and decision making power that belongs to the parents?