Potential estrangement... DIL side

I would take their ability to have a decent visit with a giant salt lick, Abi. The looming winter holidays come to mind.

You can't change what you don't acknowledge, and their refusal to admit to any of their negative behaviour doesn't bode well for the future of the relationship. Most people can behave themselves long enough to get what they want, in the short term, and given that Christmas is about six weeks away, I strongly suspect that's their motivation.

You mentioned that Christmas is important to you, so I would safe guard it from their negative behaviour, and make it a lovely day for you, your kids and DH.

"I think it's key that I stay positive too otherwise this will go no where" the right approach IMO Abi.

I agree Madgran.

I agree sweeping things under the rug doesn't work well Hithere

But choosing the moment to lift the rug as part of a conscious strategy as a partnership, being clear about the outcomes you are aiming for together and what one will do if those outcomes don't happen, is a lot more effective than just lifting the rug and waving a lot of dust about so it gets in everyone's eyes!!!

And ignoring aspects of behaviours, as a conscious choice, as part of an agreed strategy in a partnership, is not the same as rug sweeping!

Good luck Abi

I know all about that switch!

My mother was charming in company, especially with friends rather than family. I'd often take my best friend along when I visited her - to make life easier.

Of course, my friend was convinced that I'd imagined and/or exaggerated the cruel remarks and extreme bitchiness - until I asked her to just wait outside the door one day.

Having heard five minutes of verbal abuse, she appeared, and Mum (having been caught out) looked suitably horrified.

Perhaps a voice recorder - or security camera might come in handy?

why even speak to people who describe you as an incubator.
you don't need them.
enjoy your family.

Abi, I think you have been very strong in a very trying situation. There is nothing to say that you have to keep trying with them. If you feel that it is best for you and your children to keep away from them then stay away. You have obviously tried your best but you must put your own mental health first and if your gut is telling you something listen to it. Whenever I went against my gut instinct it usually went wrong. Very best wishes to you.

Abi

Rugsweeping under the rug doesnt work well

You might not ever find out why Abi you can't rationalise irrational behaviour. While you would be able to sit and have an open honest talk, they just aren't reciprocating.

I'm glad your husband is on your side and you aren't being alone with them. Whatever their problem is, they will just have to get on with it, don't let it hurt you or your happiness

I think it’s key that I stay positive too, otherwise this will go nowhere - small steps. Ive suffered so much anxiety and hurt over this - a kind of grief similar to loosing someone. Them engaging with me in a normal conversation about general things when they came to visit was actually a big step, I felt as though they recognised I was still a human being.

Yes - the why?! I asked very clearly, why is there an atmosphere, why is there no communication (I feel ignored - like the incubator they labelled me as), I also asked what had caused this change. None of my questions were addressed and they were deflected by changing trajectory of the conversation. It was clear that there is an issue, but they do not want to discuss it - at least not with me nor my husband. Maybe they will think about how to approach us on this another time.

I don’t feel comfortable enough to be alone with them, unfortunately - my husband supports me on this. I intend to just see how things go but not investing in any expectations.

Lucca @ 18.03 that's a question we've all been asking.

Thank you for the update. As long as you keep the meet ups occasional, you don't have to be bosom pals. You didn't marry his parents.
Good luck for the future.

Why indeed the OP knows the situation isn't good, much better to acknowledge that and pick up on the positives no matter how small they may be.

Hithere and VS. Why ? Just why?

I agree it isn't solved and there are lots of concerning behaviours going on.

I also think it is good that your husband is supporting you Abi and I assume that you are communicating with him about all aspects of the behaviours etc (including the change when he leaves the room) so that you can decide together how to move forward. If not, that would be a positive way forward. I also think it is wise not to be alone with them, although I know that can be difficult in normal life, you can hardly follow your husband to the loo and everywhere else he goes when they visit or you visit them! So do think about how you are going to deal with that scenario when he leaves the room or, for example, you are followed to the kitchen when making a drink or whatever. Good luck

I think that's a good point Bluebellwould. It's only natural to be on your guard when you've experienced unpleasantness in the past, and also to miss interpret an atmosphere.

Keep focused on the positives.

I agree with VS

This cannot be fixed unless both parties acknowledge what has happened and how they contributed to it.

This is a bomb waiting to explode.

Let your dh talk to them - drop the rope

Abi there are some really big red flags for me there.

Denying what they said

Putting you on speakerphone

Trying to blame you for the horrible things that were said

Putting up an appearance when your husband is in the room....

I think you should be careful, they may expect your husband to accept it when they rewrite history as this may have worked for them in the past.

You don't feel comfortable around them, keep it that way. Don't see or speak to them unless your husband is present so they can't change the narrative later. They may want to punish you for pointing out their bad behaviour. If you aren't alone with them they can't achieve that.

Thanks for update, I’m glad that your husband is supporting you and trying to build bridges which it seems might be starting to take shape.
However, and this is not a criticism and I appreciate the written word is difficult to put things across but do you think that you might be imagining things that are not actually there. The awkward silence that you felt could it be your feelings that put that slant on it. With my very overbearing MIL I would put the fences up as soon as her car pulled up outside my house and by the time the only bat walked up the path I was ready for her. It took me years to relax a little and not look for criticisms and rejections when none was meant. I hope your improving relations continue.

Thanks for the update Abi How brilliant that your husband talked to them and supported you in trying to address the problems. Small steps with that visit. IF I were you I woukd ignore any "sour" atmosphere, Smikess is right, you can't change others behaviour only your own and your own reactions!

I'm sorry that there's been no real improvement Abi but glad that your H talked to his parents. I hope you feel better knowing that he's done this and that you have also done your best to address the issue.

A very small effort on their part but an effort nonetheless. Not much to build on but better than nothing.

Please don't allow this to spoil such a special time with your children, they grow up so quickly, these moments are precious and the memories you all make will last a life time.

"I don't think for a minute that things will be ok between us for a long time to come". It does look that way doesn't it which is why you and your H need to keep on doing what you're doing, working together as a team.

Stay strong, make sure you and your H are on the same page when it comes to boundaries and remember that you cannot change the behaviour of others, the only control you have is how you react to them.

Hi everyone, thanks so much for the advice all those months ago. I don’t come on here often but thought I’d share an update.

I ended up letting things go and decided to focus on my present - my two little ones. Just recently, my husband quite randomly decided to speak to his Mum on the phone about the ostracisation, upset and unkind comments. I don’t actually know what was said but apparently they denied ever saying any of the things that we were both witness to, they deny ever treating me differently and said they consider me family. They followed this up with calling me directly the next day, I could tell I was on speaker phone as I could hear my FIL mumbling in the background. I was expecting an open talk - but my MIL focused on how upset she was with hearing from my husband, she wanted me to repeat the unkind comments they had said so she could deny it and she kept repeating that I am family. She listed many of the social things we used to do many many years ago, when I asked what had changed over the last few years she has no answer. When I asked why there was an atmosphere every time we saw them, she had no answer and kept deflecting by trying to pin things on hurtful comments they had said on me / denying things. I knew my husband had already been through it all with them so I kept on repeating that I didn’t want to open up raw wounds for me, and I would prefer to move on from this. There was no apology, although I hadn’t expected one.

Not long after this, they came to visit us for the day. They didn’t bring anything up with regards to the upset and they actually made an effort to have a conversation with me like normal people do. There was a moment where my husband left the room and I was alone with them and you could tell a switch had changed as it became awkward and a bit sour. The relationship is still fractured and it hasn’t resolved anything other than airing out the issues.

I guess we’ll see if things change going forward, but I don’t think for a minute that things will be ok between us for a long time to come.

I think if those visits continue where your in laws continue their monthly binge in your home in front of the children, they are at risk from them and your husband, you facilitates this. It's about time he took his family problems seriously or you will risk social services being involved.

Thank you for all the brilliant advice.

BlueberryPie - I love your analogy with how your family managed difficult situations/people. I would love to have that, but as Oodles describes, my husband invites them into our lives so I guess he also enables the behaviour by not doing anything to protect me and the children. Oodles description of your situation - I am sorry you experienced that, I am terrified of standing up for myself - one of those reasons is the backlash from it. I can only imagine the pain that you went through...

I am going to see my family and friends next week, for a week. It’s the only place/people where peace is guaranteed. I have been thinking about not returning and staying for longer...

I was searching for counselling last year, I will have another look and go from there. Thank you.

Agree, it would be good to go to individual counselling. Like it or not, as yr husband is not standing up for you, he is part of the problem. Some counselling for him too on his own sounds a good idea. Maybe if it is necessary, then going together.
It may seem harsh to say he is part of the problem but I know firsthand what it is like to have a husband who doesn't take your feelings on board with regards to ill-treatment from his family, probably eventually if he doesn't already, he will start blaming you for the situation, and for being rude if you stand up for yourself. And eventually, when you realise that keeping interactions as short as possible is a good thing, you will be blamed for how you tense up with they ring, and say as little as politely possible, Hang on, I'll find husbandname, you are unfriendly for you, it all will get turned in on you. Actually in my case ex didn't want to speak to them himself, he wanted me to do it
Although your dh is not an alcoholic, it sounds like the parents are, or verging on it, if they can't get through a visit without buying and consuming copious amounts of booze. There is part of AA that is for children or family membes of alcoholics. I think they say along the lines of you didn’t cause it, you can’t control it, and you cannot cure it, but that you can contribute to it. So look for ways that do not enable them, if they drink heavily around your small children, then if they won't reign it in only see them if there will not be lots of alcohol around, and if they don't agree to that, their choice. A doctor friend said that each Christmas one of the doctors had a call from someone whose child had got hold of Granny's glass of booze and helped themself to it. Hard though as they are so far away, maybe a midway point when things open up again.
My FIL used to write letters saying how badly we were bringing up the children, what a cheek when he used to hit his children and at least 2 of them turned out abusive, he was proud of hitting them too. Said lots of nasty things to me too. Various people have said to me what kind considerate people my children are [not knowing anything about their background, just what they see] , and they are. Thank heavens I ignored what he said

Good advice BlueberryPie.