The shame of being estranged

Namsnanny

Does your brother know what's gone on between you and his wife Mishy?

Sorry just picked up your question, I don't think so, the last time I saw them was at our dads funeral and didn't put me on the wreath or mention me in the reading, the rest of the family tut tutted and my brother said his wife dealt with the Vicar as he sorted out the other stuff, he would have spoken to her after the event as he hates a scene. As I left, she walked me to the door and said don't come back, I won't miss you. I am thinking of using a mutual mate to talk to our kid on the QT.

Why be ashamed?
In this day and age, with many people no longer living on each others doorsteps, let alone in the same village or town, so they rarely see each other apart from perhaps Christmas and Easter added to the fact that many people also have had problems in their past caused often by family members actions that have caused pain and distress that have affected life and cannot be forgotten.
In that case, breaking off contact is often the simpleist thing to do and often that contact stays broken.
If anyone mentions your family, if it makes you feel more comfortable, you can always say that they live some distance away so you don't see each other or even you had a big bust up in the past so broke off contact and have never been bothered about contacting them again.
It's nobody else's business and I bet for everyone that is nosey enough to ask, there will be someone else in the vicinity that will be in the same position as yourself.

I find this idea that it is shameful to be estranged from one's family really strange.

After my father died, aged 55 my mother, who was in the early states of Alzheimers lived alone My sister and I visited regularly but my brother's rarely. One brother would turn up occasionally with his family (4 young children at the time) plus wife and large dog. Mum would have tidied the house and when they left it was in a mess (in her eyes) He just didn't understand.

My other brother was living in London at the time and wouldn't visit her. When he moved back to Wales, he wouldn't phone her or even send a card. When I asked him if he would do that he said he couldn't afford it and I offered to send him some money for cards and postage and the response was that he'd nothing to say.

Neither brother visited when my mother was in a home (for several years) but they did come to her funeral. My sister didn't because she'd fallen out with one of them. I haven't seen either brother since then, more than 40 years ago. I have been in contact with my sister for a few years and now we email each other about once a week.

I've always thought that education can make a difference to relationships with siblings. One brother and I went to grammar schools and the two other siblings went to secondary moderns. My sister didn't see the point of her daughter going to uni.

We also fell out over money. My GM died around the time that we were buying our first house and I asked my dad to lend us 1/2 the deposit as I knew that he'd inherited everything from my GM. Before then my sister was pregnant (not with a partner) and wanted me to announce the pregnancy to my parents. I just couldn't do it. This was back in the 70s when there was still a stigma attached to being an unmarried mother. My parents supported her and were ostracised by some of their neighbours for doing so. To me, supporting her with her baby seemed a difficult thing to do than lending me some money, which my dad could spare.

Over the years, I've realised that it is quite unusual for siblings to remain friendly. You can chose your friends but you can't chose your family.

Thank you for your kind words, I agree it is a good idea to make a point of saying that we are estranged but I will have to put that on him because I then consider that the ball is in his court, I think I will write but I am going to have to think hard about what to say .... will let you know.

If you put the whole responsibility of the estrangement on his hands, it will backfire on you 100%

Of course you must take your time and think carefully about what to write, if you decide to do so Elless.

As you said in your earlier post you're being ghosted, which is cruel and cowardly. If your son has his reasons it seems rather strange that he can't explain his behaviour to his brother.

I don't agree that contacting him in this way would be putting "the whole responsibility of the estrangement on his hands", it is on his hands. The ball's already in his court as he's refusing to have any communication with you, and all you can do is wait and wonder if there'll be any in the future.

You understandably need and want to know if he has any intention of engaging with you or if he considers his relationship with you to be at an end.

It's totally unacceptable and un necessary to leave you in 'no man's land'. It's a terrible thing to be told by your own child that you're no longer to be a part of their lives but not knowing one way of the other must be unbearable.

I don't feel ashamed as I know it was the right thing to do but I do feel guilty. I really loved my family even though they showed none to me and its hard to estrange people you love and worry you hurt them. I think that it is a head and heart thing and even though you know that someone is unkind you think that loving them can fix it. It took a long time for me to get it into my head that they are who they are and I needed to walk away or keep letting them hurt me.

I'm often surprised by how many people are estranged from family members.

Sometimes there is abuse in families.

Sometimes people are just too different and don't get on well.

Sometimes people live far apart and have fallen out of regular contact.

There are probably lots of other reasons I haven't thought of.

I don't think that you should carry shame unless you have actively done something to be ashamed of. In which case, maybe it's not too late to make ammends. The only difference is, if you were reacting to the way others treated you, in which case, they owe you a real and genuine apology first and foremost.

Saying all that well, obviously there is a lot of shame attached to estrangent by others or society in general, it just doesn't mean you deserve to carry it.

Sometimes an AC is being controlled by their partner/husband/wife results in family estrangement.

I agree that there's no shame in being estranged if you've done nothing to deserve it, or estranging those who have treated you badly.

People might TRY to shame you or think it's your fault. Shame on THEM for being judgemental and not taking the time to listen and see your side of what happened.

There is shame. It's not our shame, though. Loving mothers who have been cruelly discarded do not need the world to turn on them in scorn and shame them on top of the pain they have already suffered. There is an Estangement charity, so hopefully a lot of stigma will go as people become more educated.

A great post OnwardandUpward. As you say "It's not our shame".

"Loving mothers who have been cruelly discarded do not need the world to turn on them in scorn and shame them on top of the pain they have already suffered". Beautifully expressed.

I still do not understand why anyone should feel shame that this has happened to them. I have friends who are estranged from their children and it has never even occurred to me that anyone would think this was something to be ashamed of. It happens and for a wide variety of reasons or even for no visible reason at all. but shame? I really do not understand why.

I think often those who should feel shame at being estranged do not but some probably confuse shame with embarrassment when their image matters more than their child, as with my mother.

But is that the cae with the OP?

I think it's because of the comments like 'you must have done something'; 'there's no smoke without fire'; 'there are 2 sides to every story' and my pet hate 'no AC ever estranges non abusive, loving parents' M0nica. All of which have been posted here on GN on numerous occasions.

Knittingnovice, I had a friend, at work, who said her family lived in Spain. She was scared of flying, so hadn't seen them for years.

Eventually, after a few years knowing me, she said that her parents lived in Spain, but she had brothers and a sister, here in the UK, that she didn't get along with. It was like a big secret that she did feel very ashamed of. I still don't understand why!

Monica I don't know if your question is directed at me because your comment is underneath mine.

If it is, OP hasn't stated what their situation is and I am just sharing my thoughts that have come up while joining the discussion as I relate to it as OP asked.

The only people who deserve to feel shame are those who have behaved badly.

So from the many reasons estrangement happens and examples given it seems to be case by case and I am not here to judge.

violetsky I seem to have upset you with my reply.It wasn't intentional. I fully accept that the reason you gave is a reason why people do feel shame, faced with an estrangement, but nothing OP has written, suggests that that is the reason why she feels shame. I think if it was the reason, someone would have become aware of it, even though she may not admit it.

However others may have felt the problem you describe is behind her feelings of shame. it is just that I do not think that is so.

Please don't worry, you haven't upset me Monica I'd have addressed OP directly had I thought anything of the sort. I was just contributing in general. I hope that reassures anyone who needs it.

When my daughter cut off me and my whole extended family, including her siblings, I felt no shame, only puzzlement. Since then I have discovered why she felt she needed to do that and it has absolutely nothing to do with me or my relationship with her. In fact the focus for her was to absent herself from particular members of my extended family and the rest of us were simply ‘collateral damage’. I’m sure she’s regretted the decision many times and I wouldn’t be at all surprised if she’s felt ashamed for cutting us off.

It's very sad that you've lost your D because you're collateral damage as a result of her wanting to absent herself from some members of your extended family grannyactivist.

It doesn’t matter what the reasons are, some people will judge parents who are estranged from their children. They’ll think you’ve obviously been a bad parent somewhere along the line, or if you haven’t been, that you’ve raised a not very nice child who will cut you off at the drop of a hat. People do judge. That’s why I keep quiet about it.
In my case, I’m estranged from siblings, but people still judge. ( can’t have been much of a family if they’ve fallen out to the point of no longer speaking etc etc …..)

Sadly there will always be those too willing to judge Kadinsky. You can be judged for feeling guilt and/or shame; you must have done something if you feel this way. You can be judged for not feeling that way; you don't really care/never did.

I've even had it suggested to me here on GN that our ES became involved with an abusive partner because he'd learned during his upbringing that it was normal behaviour. Shocking isn't it, but true.

Never feel that you have to explain what has happened in your life Kandinsky only ever do so because you want too.

Thank you Smileless2012 - very kind of you x