Why do I torture myself

Unfortunately that's not uncommon on GN Whiff.

Despite those of us who have been estranged sharing our experiences there are some who simply seem to be unable or unwilling to accept that there are EAC who estranged non abusive parents.

I haven't seen any comments accusing OP of abuse either.

Whiff

Elless is having an operation today so doubt she will be in any fit state to clarify anything Summerlove.

I wasn't going to post as but why is it some on here have turned it into her son estranged himself from his parents because of abuse.

Many on estrangement threads have never abused their children in any shape or form me included. But still our kids turn their backs on us .

I said nothing about abuse whiff, nothing.

I simply stated it sounded like there were two sons who had their own issues, based on OPs own posts. Others read it differently.

Elless is having an operation today so doubt she will be in any fit state to clarify anything Summerlove.

I wasn't going to post as but why is it some on here have turned it into her son estranged himself from his parents because of abuse.

Many on estrangement threads have never abused their children in any shape or form me included. But still our kids turn their backs on us .

Smileless2012

Sorry Summerlove I don't understand what you're saying.

It was posted on this thread that the OP had been estranged from two sons and that was wrong. She's been estranged twice by one son.

I read it as two sons. Based on her own posts. I’m obviously not the only one.

Maybe she’ll come back and clarify.

Madgran I know what you were saying but I think it's probably not a good idea to just dismiss OPs sons feelings about it

My intention was not to dismiss. If the son was here he could explain but he isn't. My comment was based purely on the information that is available which is from his mum.

March I take your point and sorry you had that to deal with. I don't know if as you describe was the case for Elless's son.

I agree March and Chewbacca. Making assumptions about abuse is extremely upsetting for anyone who has been estranged.

Posters are looking for advice not judgemental assumptions.

You don't have to be abusive to have a rocky relationship.

Absolutely so March, that's right. There is a tendency for some on GN to have the knee-jerk response that, where there is an estrangement, there must, by definition, also be abuse and that's just wrong. Having an open mind, and being able to see beyond one's own experiences and not apply them like a blanket over all other situations is important when offering advice.

Anyway I went back through and checked the previous replies and of course it is possible that some info was mistyped. I was just responding to what I read and remembered from previous comments that's all.

Summerlove I read that eldest son reconsiled 2 years ago stating mum was right about issues. Eldest has 2 children and relationship with DIL is still strained.

Estranged son has not been in contact for 3 years and has 1 son Elless has sadly never met except when the other grandparent passes the house with him which is an unkind thing to do if she can go a different way.

Not that it matters to the situation at hand. Families do fall out for periods of time.

While I was reading it I just hoped that 1 reconsiliation might lead to 2 if handled delicately.

You don't have to be abusive to have a rocky relationship.
Difficult relationships are always there. Some people just don't get on. Like chalk and cheese.
Neither the son or op sounds abusive.

It's wrong and unfair to Elless to suggest that the issues she's having with her son have anything to do with him having abusive parents.

Her son's feelings are not being dismissed, we have no idea what those feelings may be and to suggest that his parents have been/are abusive IMO is dismissing her feelings.

Sorry Summerlove I don't understand what you're saying.

It was posted on this thread that the OP had been estranged from two sons and that was wrong. She's been estranged twice by one son.

To you it does, and to me it does but having been in the position of the OPs son.... 'being a very weak camel'.

I was, I was drowning and going through something terrible. Our relationship was already on the rocks. The way it was communicated wasn't pleasant and it was just another thing to add to a long list.
A switch went off like 'I can't actually do this anymore'
And that was that.

So yes, I agree but there's obviously alot more going on. OP doesn't mention what the relationship was like with his Dad. Maybe all the suits had to match? Maybe it was the way it was said? Who knows.

I think the OP has done the right thing sending the letter and now she's at peace with the whole thing. If the relationship has been difficult with her son for a number years it's not fair to add the grandson into an already fragile relationship.

Madgran I know what you were saying but I think it's probably not a good idea to just dismiss OPs sons feelings about it.

A second reconsiliation might hinge on listening to why that hurt his feelings and taking those feelings seriously, that's all.

VioletSky . I agree that in certain circumstances "the straw that broke the camels back" can seem quite inconsequential to others. I know you said that you were not directing your comment re the truth of the "camel/straw phrase at the OP specifically, it was a general comment. In the same way my comment about it being a flimsy straw and a weak camel was specifically referring to the information we have on THIS thread about the particular circumstances in THIS scenario, rather than a general comment about the validity of the phrase.

Within this scenario it still seems a very flimsy straw and a very weak camel to me.

Smileless2012

Elless has had a two year estrangement from one son, not estrangement from two sons.

Except she says in the OP that her “es” has a son and she can’t picture him being a father.

Her eldest son has two children who she did have a bond with prior to estrangement.

OP might have 5 sons.
Eldest
Estranged
3 living at home at the time of the wedding

I agree Chewbacca that to bring "abusive parents" into the discussion is unfair as well as a distraction.

It's Elless' son whose exhibiting abusive behaviour, not her or her H. He estranges his parents, comes back into their lives and has now estranged them again.

There is nothing in the OP that indicates any incidences of abuse, either towards Elless or towards her adult children. To bring in abusive parents to this OP is unfair and detracts from the problem she actually does have.

To be fair to estranged children of abusive parents, the last straw can be something very small that might seem inconsequential to others.

Not directing that at our OP at all, it's just the truth of the saying, "the last straw that broke the camels back"

Elless I think you've done the right thing for you and gave it one last go. Atleast you know where you stand and like you say, brings you peace.

If things have been difficult for a number of years, I think 'the straw that broke the camels back' was obviously the suit incident and wedding as a whole. For whatever reason.

Concentrate on yourself and your health.

"that really is a very flimsy straw and a very weak camel whatever has gone before" indeed Madgran.

The suit may have been the straw that broke the camel's back, given the difficult relationship you had with him before then

I really can't get my head around this. I accept that there had been difficulties previously. However his dad wanting to HIRE a suit in the requested colour rather than BUY one... that really is a very flimsy straw and a very weak camel whatever had gone before!!

Anyway Elless I am sure you will consider the point, or probably have done already, and will draw your own conclusions.

A father wishes to hire a blue suit for his son's wedding, rather than purchase one as he wont wear it again and that is the straw "that broke the camel's back".!!!

Elless clearly states in her post @ 13.04 that when seeking to reconcile after estranging his parents for the first time, she was told by him "I'm sorry, you were right about everything". So any difficulties there have been with this particular son appear to be more about him than the OP and his father.

I agree that weddings are stressful, but telling your dad to not to bother to attend because he wants to hire a suit in the colour his son's requested, rather than purchase one is ridiculous to say the least.

Just an excuse, and not a very convincing one IMO.

OP

The suit may have been the straw that broke the camel's back, given the difficult relationship you had with him before then.

Weddings are also very stressful events - it doesnt help