Why do I torture myself

Thanks for your kind words Vioeletsky and Smileless

Owning the truth, being able to grow through pain and realising that the way people treat you is not always about you. I'm making the best of things. I'm close to one of my kids and have a great husband. I won't anymore be blamed for things that aren't my fault. I'm getting better at coping with the barbed comments from my Mother and hoping through therapy that I never become her.

Great post yesterday @ 19.37 Madgran.

It would be a sad world wouldn't it if there was no thought about how our words and actions impact on others, because if we upset someone, and we all do don't we, it's not our responsibility, it's up to them how they feel.

In all relationships, communication is key. Parents and their AC by communicating their needs and expectations in a mature way can in the main avoid any problems of for example, expectations not being met. This goes for a p's expectations of how often they see their AC and any GC, and an AC's expectations of how much assistance they may get with regard to child care.

That's an interesting thought M0nica. I can understand Elless seeing her m.i.l's. behaviour as deliberately cruel and provocative. I felt the same when our ES would walk past our house with our GC before we moved.

I'd never considered it from the perspective you've suggested; definitely food for thought.

Elless Have you considered that DS's MiL stands outside your house with DGC so that you get a chance to see them regularly. She could be under strict instructions not to contact you or let you talk to children or she too will be cut out of their lives and this is her way round it.

I always try to look for a positive interpretation for such events, ever since i got really upset and angry at something my sister said to me, only to find that what she actually meant was something totally anodyne and she was then upset because I had thought she would say what I thought she said.

Putting a positive spin on negative comments, can also set the person wanting to be nasty on the back foot, because they meant something nasty and you then respond positively by thanking them for their kind comment.

Remember, as with bullies, and bullying is what some estrangements are, the bully is looking to see you sad and upset and begging for mercy. Refusing to show that you are upset, or even seeming to notice the bad behaviour, rather spoils their fun.

I am not being facetious, but there is more than one way of handling problems like you face. For the time being just concentrate on your operation and getting well and be glad that support of one son.

Just the thought of fitting in the child activities, and church for those who go, and catching up with housework, preparing for the week ahead, the garden, pets, friends, family and some quiet time with the DH and children and, if I'm lucky, some quiet time - then having any family member, GP or otherwise, want to catch up every week at minimum. I would relocate to get a break from that if I had to. That's overwhelming to me.

"As a GP what amount of contact is expected from a married AC?"

Depends on the AC really. Everyone is different, have different needs, different ways of parenting. different lives, different families. I don't think one can "agree" a generalalised "AC expectation" really 3nanny6. Bit I know it is hard when one's own personal preferences/expectations are not met isn't it.

"As a GP what amount of contact is expected from a married AC? I would like at least once a week to see my GS and if I got more that would be a bonus to me and also maybe to get more perhaps meant that my AC was not too busy and could bring my GS more than once a week."

Once a week, depending on the AC's lives, could be ok or too much. Every family is different
For me, it would get old fast

Now, the bonus of bringing the kids to you - that's too much for two reasons: more visits AND the parents go to you vs you to them to make it easier.

Quote 3nannny6: "As a GP what amount of contact is expected from a married AC? I would like at least once a week to see my GS and if I got more that would be a bonus to me and also maybe to get more perhaps meant that my AC was not too busy and could bring my GS more than once a week."

This sounds overwhelming to me as an AC. Unless some visits are half hour stopping over for a cup of tea and quick chat. Full day visits, or even half day visits every week, with friends and other relatives and another set of parents to fit in, I feel burned out just thinking about it. Let alone more than once a week!

Our children are not responsible for our emotions.

No-one is responsible for our emotions except ourselves.

Having said that, taken to the nth degree then no-one would ever need to worry in anyway whatsoever about how they treated anyone else because they could just say "I'm not responsible for how you feel." Why would anyone ever bother to be "kind", "tactful" give "honest and constructive criticism" rather than "crush someone completely without helping them improve". Presumably as well there would be no arguable cases of bullying as the person complaining of bullying could just be told that they are responsible for their own feelings" Maybe the same with racism!

Now I must be clear that I DON'T believe that that is the case because I think we are all responsible for how we treat other people and that includes having some consideration for the impact of behaviours etc. That does not mean that instigating walking away; disagreements; estrangements. relationship break downs...etc etc should never happen because of the impact on others; of course they should and are a valid action for some to take in the context of their life and experience without regard to the impact on another person. Their own welfare and survival are rightly their priority.

In relation to how people write in posts online, including the use of words etc I suppose we all have a responsibility try to post appropriately and with thought even when giving constructive criticism. Explaining to each other what words and phrases mean in our own context, which may differ from someone elses, is useful but not sure that it means a phrase cannot be used in any individuals context, because presumably as we are all individuals we need to be able to explain ourselves with the words and phrases that we need to use. That can lead to misunderstandings which can be explained and hopefully accepted as a differing use of the same word.

Relationships both in person and online are so complicated!
Meanwhile we are all dealing with so many different aspects and phases of estrangements/low contact/and threatened estrangement/low contact and it is good that we have this forum to try to support each other even when giving constructive comments. I am personally grateful for what I have learnt, the constructive advice I have received and also for the support from some GN forums and some GN threads.

I know what you mean 3nanny that's why it's good to share the things that make us happy too. Good for the one who has those to share and good for others to read about them.

Meanings only get skewed if we allow them to be and do not stand against or explain them. This works for the benefit of those who use them to easily describe their situations. It's not toouch to ask to not want to be hurt by those who choose to use them differently when it wouldn't harm them in any way to listen and stop.

Any person who is capable of change and personal growth listens when a meaning is explained to them and is able to make the choice to try and understand what is meant rather than twist it into something that it is not for their own benefit. Even if there is no benefit other than some kind of bizarre oneupmanship where "you can't have those terms because I want to use them however I want" even if that invalidates people or makes it harder for them to be understood.

Sometimes that is why I do not regularly post about them as missing them will stay with me always and not keep posting such sadness helps me cope better.

Thank-you Smileless and I think there must be a higher being above which I fully believe in that timed the arrival of this precious little boy that has at least taken some of the pain of the loss of my other three. Always a place in my heart for them
sadly no contact in my life.

It's lovely that you have you new GS 3nanny. I'm so pleased for you, you've been though so much so enjoy that precious little boy, and make the most of every moment you get to spend with him.

Smileless2012

That's true Summerlove "other people don't exist to please use" but that doesn't mean that their behaviour can't cause great pain and distress, especially if they're people we love.

Even still
We are the only ones responsible for our feelings.

We might be hurt or pleased by others actions, but those emotions belong to us. We choose how we feel.

Our children are not responsible for our emotions.

As a GP what amount of contact is expected from a married AC? I would like at least once a week to see my GS and if I got more that would be a bonus to me and also maybe to get more perhaps meant that my AC was not too busy and could bring my GS more than once a week.

Reading some of the other posts on this thread I can empathize with the posters and for me I have an AD who has three of my GC. The relationship I had with her was demeaning to me and possibly on both sides there began to be little contact this then went to her making calls to me and
dangling a carrot on a stick telling me that I could pick up the GC and take them out only to go back on that and tell me
I was not a good enough person to let her do that.
That then escalated to no contact and I suppose estrangement and the last time I saw my GC from my daughter was May 2021 so I have accepted it and fill up my days with things to keep the memories away. I am past the point of bothering to send cards anymore and in one call my daughter told me that the children had been asking for me but she told them that I no longer want to see them, I think that is one of the most hurtful things she has said.
I am at least happy I have the new GS and whatever time they give me is fine by me.

That's true Summerlove "other people don't exist to please use" but that doesn't mean that their behaviour can't cause great pain and distress, especially if they're people we love.

Hold your ds responsible to your happiness

Better yet, hold yourself responsible for your happiness. Other people do t exist to please us.

Every family is different Norah, what may be 'normal' in terms of regulatory of contact for one, may not be 'normal' for another.

What is normal, expected contact with married AC? Once a fortnight? Once a month? Christmas and Birthday? It may be that we expect too much of busy families.

"I am typically delighted with whatever" I was too Norah. Less contact was never an issue; no contact is.

Smileless "having less contact with your son once he marries and has a family of his own which is completely normal and to be expected, is not the same as no contact at all."

Less contact with married AC is normal. I wonder what mum or m.i.l. reasonably expects from married with children AC? I expect nothing, I am typically delighted with whatever is.

I disagree. If a term is used inappropriately then the meaning becomes skewed.

Terms don't always get used in the situation they are appropriate to Smileless2012 as we discussed before but that doesn't change their actual meaning.

Well I'm sure it is in some cases Violetsky but not in all by any means, and of course having less contact with your son once he marries and has a family of his own which is completely normal and to be expected, is not the same as no contact at all.

Oh I do ultimately Norah but that doesn't negate the influence and pressure from his wife.