Do you send gifts to GC when estranged

And you don't see the contradiction in that. You promising a child to a religion. Which comes with registration is wrong imo. The child can choose to do so when an adult.
But I vehemently disagree with it happening to babies.

Again Smileless. I know my MiL better. It was a performance. It was about the dress and guest list.
I know friends who have said they aren't religious just wanted a nice day.
I know people who've done it to get their kids into a specific school.

It does happen.

Atheism is as valid as being Christian, Catholic, Muslim, Jewish, Pagan, etc.

No Bibbity I don't see anything ridiculous in my comment but find your's about "most religions" cutting ties with children because they believe differently to their parents, rather ridiculous.

Also, your understanding of the Christian baptism of infants is flawed. It has nothing to do with the child's faith being chosen for them. Whether or not that child follows the Christian faith in adulthood is their choice.

The promises made by the parents and God parents are their pledges to God and do not include indoctrinating that child into the Christian faith. God wants us to love him freely which is why he gave us free will.

Your comment about your m.i.l. wanting a "show and dance" and to dress children up like dolls in "her" dress to be played with, further illustrates your total lack of understanding.

As GSM has posted "do you have to be so nasty about that?"

I agree Hithere that we all have the right to find what works for us but still don't understand what you meant by teaching atheism. Surely that is teaching that God or gods don't exist?

Why am I not surprised about that last statement.

I believe I know my MIL a bit better....it was for the show and dance. Apart from funerals, weddings and christenings she never mentioned God or stepped foot in a church.

And regardless of that. As the baby in questions parents are atheist then it's not really a discussion to be had at all is it?

I am lucky to have not had to have seen her in 4 years so there is also that.

My children have freedom of choice. They are taught to be respectful of individual people of different faiths but if they ask me what I think then obviously I will share that with them.

Bibbity, if your mil is a Christian, her expecting the children would be christened isn’t wanting ‘a show and dance’ or wanting to dress them up like dolls to be played with. Her beliefs aren’t the same as yours. Do you have to be so nasty about that?

Smileless that's a bit of a ridiculous comment don't you think?

Because of tolerance? Understanding the many different cultures and ethnicities in this world? History?

They are more than welcome to pick what they believe. Which is why I am so very against christenings.

I am raising at that science is the reason we are here and that they are not accountable to any higher power but those here.

If they choose to believe different that is fully their call.

Unlike most religions I won't cut ties with my children because they think differently than me

Smileless

Because we all have the right to find what works for us.

Just because I don't believe in the concept of god, it doesnt mean my kids have other options out there.

Of course I'm bossy with regards to my children. What a silly comment.

I am not indoctrinating them. They know about science and that different people around the world believe different things.

He has zero belief. MIL just wanted a how and dance and the babies to wear 'her' dress. As my children aren't dolls they won't be played with as such.

They can choose what to do when they're older and certainly what they want to do with any children they choose to have. But right now it's all about what me and DH want.

atheists don't believe in the existence of God or gods so why would you teach your children about "all different beliefs out there and let them pick what they believe"?

As does "forcing a child who has no free will (not) to follow a set of religious rules". Works both ways.

A lot of times, being atheist means teaching kids all different beliefs out there and let them pick what they believe
That is how it works in my home.

I cannot speak for Bibbity.

As for indoctrinating- every family teaches their kids what they believe on - that is not indoctrination.

Now, forcing a child who has no free will to follow a set of religious rules = indoctrination

Bibbity

Did you respect your sons atheism?
That was a massive boundary I have always demanded. My children are being raised atheist and I will not have someone indoctrinate them.
Hearing other peoples religious beliefs as stories is one thing. But as fact. No.

My MIL was showing me the christening gown that my husband has been christened in and the my child would be christened in.....she was most displeased when I said that would never happen. She tried it on with my husband. Smart man didn't even push it with me once.

Bibbity, has it ever occurred to you that you are indoctrinating your children? I have never heard of children ‘being raised atheist’ as opposed to letting them make up their own minds. My daughter is an atheist, my son isn’t, but she happily agreed to a church wedding as it was what he wanted. If they have children they will be christened. You don’t say if your husband is an atheist, and if so whether that’s his choice, but your ‘smart man’ comment wasn’t very nice. Nor do you. You sound incredibly bossy.
Apologies that this doesn’t follow the thread but I couldn’t let that post go without comment.

Smileless2012 you're right of course. That's a good idea I hadn't thought of that. Thank you

"Do u have to spend to show love" no you don't Socksandsocks and it's such a shame that your GD's been turned against you because of her parents lies.

Send her a card for her 21st with perhaps an invitation for you and her to go to a restaurant of her choice for a celebration meal. In your position I wouldn't spend a fortune on a gift.

You want to be a part of someone's life because of who you are, not because of how much money you spend on them.

AC falling out is not about you. Don't make it so

Wise words!

I agree Allsorts. I've tried keeping to the boundaries set by the parents. I didn't know if grand kids knew or not. Then the adult grandkids think u don't care after abiding by yet another rule. Parents may never make tge kids aware of gifts they have control. My grandaughter now thinks I don't care after years of twisted lies. I've thought of nothing else as her 21st birthday is coming up. Shall I spend hundreds on a gift that could end up in the bin? Do u have to spend to show love. Also what disrespect to go on the way she did. Accused me of not visiting her etc. Old enough to get the bus to mine but that's not even thought of. I wouldn't have ever said those things to my gran.

Of course OP may show GC any pictures she wishes, but her Son may get angry if he wishes as well. He seems to have a boundary that Mum isn't to cross, regarding his sister. I find it better to be happy than right, I don't cross my AC.

Of course OP may send gifts, but if there had been a request of NC, I wouldn't. I'd wait in silence.

Just don't take sides. Remain neutral, AC falling out is not about you. Don't make it so.

That's very sad User777 to have been denied the GP's you wanted to see.

I agree with you, children are often the innocent victims in these situations when their parents stop them from seeing their GP's not to protect them, but out of the spite and anger they have toward their parents.

That said, it isn't unreasonable to ask someone not to share photo's of their children with someone they don't want to see them, but that does put a family member in a difficult position if they then feel they are being made to take sides.

Some really good points made here about why it's not a good idea to share those pictures that really do show why parents set those sorts of boundaries to protect their children from harm.

The sadness of so many estranged g p. My g p were not allowed to see us. We wanted to see them. How is it that AC have become so controlling and vile. AC think they are right with no discussion. We have a controlling AC, its best to keep away from him in my view. As the kids may take the brunt of his vile, childish, drug riddled temper. Is it any wonder the kids become anxiety ridden

I also agree with freedom

If you send any presents for the gc, please do not send anything remotely religious related.
Your son will not appreciate the indoctrination.

100% everything freedomfromthepast said.

I believe this argument is not about a grandparent being proud and sharing a photo. I believe it is about the son being upset that his child was being exposed to someone who he didn't want his child exposed to. In this case, yes it is a baby. But the if he chooses to be estranged (him and his child) from his sibling and the baby, that is his choice and everyone must respect that.

I am a bit shocked by the boundaries talk on this thread. Adults have the right to set boundaries. Both for themselves and for their minor children. We do not have to like them, we do not have to agree with them, but we do have to respect them. Does not matter how ridiculous we think they are. If we don't there may be consequences.

If I were told "in my house, its my rules" with my child, then my child you not be at that house long. This is not giving ice cream and sweets for dinner. This is involving a 4 year old in family drama against the parents wishes.

I do believe that the son is being unreasonable by asking parents to take a side. Of course a parent would not choose one child over another. But I do not think he is being unreasonable to ask that the OP not share photos of his child with someone he wants to be no contact with.

As for the gift thing. Unless he has specifically asked you not to send them, then send them. If he has asked you to not send anything, then do not do it.

Did you respect your sons atheism?
That was a massive boundary I have always demanded. My children are being raised atheist and I will not have someone indoctrinate them.
Hearing other peoples religious beliefs as stories is one thing. But as fact. No.

My MIL was showing me the christening gown that my husband has been christened in and the my child would be christened in.....she was most displeased when I said that would never happen. She tried it on with my husband. Smart man didn't even push it with me once.