No contact with Narcissistic Mother

freedomfromthepast that's awful. You must have thought things were finally going to change until that.

I forgot how good they are at acting and lying because when I think about going to a counsellor or a therapist, I think about how that's an opportunity to show my flaws and my hurts and ask for help. Narcissists would want it to look like they are perfect and then be validated.

Do not go to a therapist with your abuser. I was forced to as a teen. I finally felt that maybe something good would come out of it. I sat down and was allowed to "go first". I talked about things from my point of view. In response, my mother started screaming like a banshee, flailing her arms because "OF COURSE" I would blame her for EVERYTHING: wrong between us. I would never take time to see it was me causing problems. I finally shut down during the session, she was happy that I saw it "her way" and we went home never to go back again.

Years later, after I estranged her , she said her therapist told her she is not being aggressive enough and to how try harder. Luckily she didnt, it would not have gone she envisioned it.

Very well written Smileless

If we could all drag our abusers down to the nearest therapist we might actually have been able to have everyone listen to us and been able to heal them and the relationship...
They simply won't go but there's a space where these people definitely exist and some of us have been forced to share it with them.

Nicely said Smileless.

VioletSky

CafeAuLait

VioletSky, I wasn't the one that challenged the use of the term.

I agree we should just get on with supporting OP. Her experience of her mother is what matters. A lot of us have been there and understand how difficult it is, especially at the beginning of the journey.

I know you weren't and it was really meant to be general but I know you would understand too, if that makes sense

Yes, not a problem.

OP, I apologise for getting drawn in the direction of a discussion that was off topic. I do understand this is a difficult time and have been there in different ways myself.

"The reality is a narcissist will rarely be diagnosed" absolutely Sago because it's never their fault, because they are always the innocent victim, they're extremely unlikely to ever seek professional help.

If they do, it's likely that the behaviour they're describing in their tormentor is fact their own, and the affect that behaviour is supposedly having on them, is what their victim is going through.

There's a lot of information available about all manner of psychological problems so it's very easy to find out about narcissism in general and the traits associated with this personality disorder.

We believe our ES's wife to be a narc based on what we've read, what we've been told about her past, from our own personal experiences and what little we know of how she is and behaves in the present.

I can understand why some may think 'how convenient, you can absolve yourself from any responsibility and blame your d.i.l.'; these things are said.

Whilst it is true that only a trained professional can give a definitive diagnosis that should not totally detract from personal experience.

CafeAuLait

VioletSky, I wasn't the one that challenged the use of the term.

I agree we should just get on with supporting OP. Her experience of her mother is what matters. A lot of us have been there and understand how difficult it is, especially at the beginning of the journey.

I know you weren't and it was really meant to be general but I know you would understand too, if that makes sense

I'm sorry you had those experiences Sago.

VioletSky, I wasn't the one that challenged the use of the term.

I agree we should just get on with supporting OP. Her experience of her mother is what matters. A lot of us have been there and understand how difficult it is, especially at the beginning of the journey.

Bridie22 that’s a bit harsh on VS but as she rightly says we are here to respond to Susie345 who started this thread, looking for support and understanding and asking if anyone could relate to her experiences. Susie345 needs help in getting her head round this. When I was a carer there were special sessions run by the local carer’s organisation. We were encouraged to write down our thoughts so I think journaling can only be helpful to Susie as she continues to come to terms.

The reality is a narcissist will rarely be diagnosed.

A narc never understands the effect of their behaviour, always thinks they are right,has no empathy and will believe their problems are everyone else’s fault.

I diagnosed my mother as a narc.

Growing up hearing “I rue the day you were born” You will end up in the gutter” “Your brothers got more sense in his little finger than you’ve got in your thick head” was a clue.

Her turning a blind eye to my fathers beatings were a clue, I could go on, being beaten by her because I washed the kitchen floor with a mop not a scrubbing brush ( I was 11)
Christmas 1972 I got a paperback book, my brother got a Sony tape recorder!

I never had any love or affection, the only brief respite was being diagnosed with clinical depression age 8, I was treated a little better for a few weeks but my school was blamed!

I really really don't want this to upset OPs thread cafeaulait. I just believe her and I want her to be able to believe herself. If I am wrong and I often am, that doesn't change that I think using these words are acceptable for victims of abuse and professionals have agreed with me.

You are welcome to bring this discussion to its own thread or PM if you want but can we please put a stop to it here?

VioletSky, if someone told me they were a victim of someone with NPD, I will accept it at face value because that's clearly their perception and it tells you what they have experienced something a certain way. That message is more important than whether they are medically correct.

Just as you cannot diagnose someone post-humously (but can suspect), you can't diagnose someone who is absent. It would be possible to say, "It sounds like they might have been depressed or anxious..." or "I wonder if they might have been suffering from anxiety? This behaviour is characteristic of someone who could have been."

The terms a victim of abuse uses are less important than the meaning those terms have for that person.

Bridie22

Violet Sky, I am not arguing with you, just pointing out your opinion is wrong.
I find your posts self- serving, misleading and at times contradictory.
That is my opinion and I will no longer interact with you.

Thank you

clutching at straws and trying to find some peace and help anywhere she can.

Very well said Scones. So many people are trying to find a way through their own trauma the best way they can and with whatever support they can find. Regrettably, this thread isn't unique in having someone swan in and telling them that they're going about things in completely the wrong way; often by posters who have sought support themselves in the past too. None of us know what's really going on in another person's life. Compassion is all.

Cafeaulait Well unofficially for a long time a therapist could suggest that and they have (using therapist as an umbrella term of course).

Narcissistic victim syndrome doesn't have a solid presence in the DSM but the parameters of PTSD have been moved to accommodate it and officially I am certain narcissistic victim syndrome under that or another name will be in the DSM separately in future as a lit of people in the medical community re ognise and are asking for it.

But even so, It wouldn't be pulled up if I said my mother was depressed or anxious etc so I think we have to accept these terms, coming from victims of abuse especially, when they are describing what has very definitely happened to them.

Although you accept she will not change part of you wishes things were different and that makes for sadness or pathos. You have the support of the rest of your family but do think do you wish to cut contact for ever? Has mum tried to make any contact herself and you have rejected her? None of us are in your situation and you must decide what is best for you. I tried to appease a difficult mil who walked away. On reflection I should not have resurrected contact. You may be able to make it up with mum but if you do make sure it’s on your terms.

Bridie22

Only a mental health professional can diagnose narcissistic personality disorder, a psychologist or psychiatrist.
Not therapists, I think we have been here before VS.

Given that there are international posters and differences in terminology that describes different professionals, I wouldn't worry too much about the specific term used. I tend to use the generic 'therapist' to cover psychologists or anyone in that kind of role on forums.

However, even some medical psychiatric diagnoses are not given without also talking with the family of the patient, where possible. Other people's views and experiences can be useful and informative.

Violet Sky, I am not arguing with you, just pointing out your opinion is wrong.
I find your posts self- serving, misleading and at times contradictory.
That is my opinion and I will no longer interact with you.

VioletSky

Birdie then you know my opinion and that its pointless to argue about it when we could just show support for OP who has obviously been through something painful instead.

Well said!

What is happening in the hearts and minds of people who feel the need to post on a thread to tell someone who is suffering which words to choose to describe their pain?

Just because you are all over this terminology and know how and when it should be used, doesn't mean that the OP isn't coming to this for the first time, clutching at straws and trying to find some peace and help anywhere she can.

Actually VioletSky, a good therapist could not diagnose based on what they see in front of them in a possible victim. A therapist might suspect, but a diagnosis can't be made without even meeting the other person. All a therapist knows is what they are told. Do you think that always turns out to be true and accurate?

I think what matter is that OP has obviously had a difficult relationship with her mother that has left her feeling hurt and it is something she needs support to heal from.

I understand OP. There's a lot of processing that needs to take place when you have distanced yourself from a parent. You'll find a lot here who can relate to aspects of your story. You might find some good support in the estrangement thread.

Bridie

Birdie then you know my opinion and that its pointless to argue about it when we could just show support for OP who has obviously been through something painful instead.

Only a mental health professional can diagnose narcissistic personality disorder, a psychologist or psychiatrist.
Not therapists, I think we have been here before VS.

It's hard to grieve the mother you wanted and to accept that you will never have that. And then to go onto acknowledge that the person who is supposed to love and care for you has actually caused you harm.

But you are free. Block everything and don't feel like you have to justify your actions to anyone ever!

If someone brings it up say "I am very happy with my decision o not have any contact ever again with her" and then change the subject. Weather, mutual friend, upcoming holiday.
It does take time but have the stress and weight lifted from your shoulders is so wonderful.