The torture of going NC - nobody wins

I would caveat that with: As long as the AC are also willing to listen to the other perspective, even if it means hearing some things that they disagree with or that might be hard to hear. AC know their parents aren't perfect, you're right. AC aren't perfect too.

Many of the estranged adult children who post on the estrangement threads give the opposite advice to this OP. Their view is if your adult child has decided on no contact, getting in touch to try and understand or make sense of it, is harassment.
I agree that no by wins when no contact happens, when families break up.

A well written and moving account of the circumstances that led to your estrangement blindedscience. It's great that you have sought and found the help you needed to make the break an protect yourself and your children from this toxic and abusive atmosphere.

I agree with CafeAuLait's caveat as in order for any kind of resolution, communication is key and that requires all parties to listen to one another.

Where there's estrangement, more often than not there's a manipulative, controlling and abusive person at the centre, and if you have read any of the personal accounts here on GN, you will know that that person is not always a parent. It can be the AC or the partner of an AC.

You tried to communicate your experiences with those involved but for many of that has never been the case. We have been met with a wall of silence and when 'experiences' have been talked about, they've consisted of false allegations.

There has been no one to verify or substantiate their allegations if made, because those allegations are false. You say "if they've gone NC it means they've given up on trying to communicate with you". Sometimes, and this was the case for us, they don't even bother to try.

"no body wins" I believe that sometimes someone does win. The coercive partner who wanted nothing more than to see their husband/wife/partner disengage from their birth family, and succeeds with their lies and manipulation, wins when estrangement finally happens.

Their victory may be short lived if their partner eventually leaves them, or may not be as sweet as they first thought because their partner is no longer the person they once were. Perhaps miserable because of what they've done and ridden with guilt because they know it was wrong. They may be in so deep that they cannot leave, but they'll have changed, and no longer be the person they once were.

The pain does reduce with time but it never goes away. We learn to live with it just as you do and the possibility of being able to talk to our ES is as non existent as it is for you to be able to talk to your family.

You estranged to protect yourself and you children. I'm sorry that you needed to do that but it was the right thing to do. We were estranged by our youngest son and as a consequence lost our only GC.

To protect ourselves, contacting our ES is out of the question. We cannot put ourselves at risk again.

Smileless may I suggest that not having witnesses to abuse allegations does NOT make them false? Many abusers are extremely careful to avoid witnesses who would go against them.

According to my younger siblings, their dad “never laid a hand on me.” All the bruises and welts he left were carefully placed not to show, and all the beatings were done in a closed room, when we were alone, or with only my mother as a witness. And she lied in criminal court to say it didn’t happen.

Please don’t invalidate the many, many survivors of domestic violence by saying no witnesses means no abuse.

blindedscience

My story is similar to yours in that I had a stepfather and his child with my mum was valued and loved. However my mum was also abusive.

My mother had an extremely abusive childhood which I believe manifested as NPD. Not all those (as you clearly show) with NPD are abusive but my mother did not seek to heal herself and repeated the abusive patterns of her childhood with me. She could never see it. The stories she told of her childhood were heartbreaking and if I reacted to that she would pull back and normalise them.

I tried very hard to have them listen to me and understand. I sat down with them. I put examples of their behaviour in writing and I offered joint counselling. I was told it didn't happen and they laughed in my face so I went NC.

Even now, I read the messages that come through and I know that although I am at peace with my decision, if they listened and sought help, this could be undone.

I didn't estrange them to hurt or punish them, I estranged to protect myself and my children who were witnessing abuse and who needed a healthy happy mum.

My family, mum, stebadas and brother, always come at me from a place where my estranging them is worse than my reasons for doing so. All the while they are of that mindset, nothing can ever change.

"went NC to protect myself and them.
And it's been gloriously peaceful."

You did win - your life back, your right to. E respected.

You won big time

Mercury Queen, Hithere, VioletSky and Blind Science, you all seem to have all had the similar experiences with your awful mothers. It is good you have each other for support.
I agree that no one wins.

Yes you may suggest that if you wish MercuryQueen but I don't understand why you needed too as there is nothing in my post that invalidates the experiences of others, and no where have I said "no witnesses means no abuse".

How dare you put words into my mouth of that nature. I am very annoyed that you have done so. I was quite clearly posting about our experience with our ES when I posted "We have been met with a wall of silence and when 'experiences' have been talked about, they've consisted of false allegations. There has been no one to verify or substantiate their allegations if made, because those allegations are false".

Sorry my last paragraph should read:

My family, mum, stepdad and brother always come at me from a place where my estranging them is worse than my reasons for doing so. All the while they are of that mindset, nothing will ever change.

Exactly vs

I agree that when those who at fault are unable or unwilling to accept what they have done "nothing will ever change". So we move on with our lives and hopefully come to realise that even though we love them, our lives are happier and we are better off without them.

My point seems to have been missed in your annoyance, Smileless.

"There has been no one to verify or substantiate their allegations if made, because those allegations are false". - I understand how you consider this to be proof of your stance, but I'm simply pointing out how it's a false equivalency for many.

I did not say you were abusive, simply asked that you perhaps be more aware of what you were saying, and how it could impact those who have experienced abuse. Many, if not most abusers are far too calculated to show that side of themselves where witnesses are present.

I have not twisted your words, simply offered a different perspective on them for your consideration.

No MercuryQueen you are not in a position to offer a different perspective on my words when I have posted about my own experience.

My words apply to my situation and no one else's and this is what happens when someone attributes something to someone that was never said.

For example, I didn't say that you had said I was abusive. I know how abuse impacts on "those who have experienced abuse" because I was abused as a child.

You posted "Please don't invalidate the many, many survivors of domestic violence by saying no witness means no abuse". I didn't say that. I made no mention of domestic abuse. So in fact you did more than twist my words, you attributed words to me that I never said.

I think experiences of individual situations can be very different and sometimes there is a disconnect between what we intend and what is recieved. In which case we need to listen in order to understand the feelings of the other person.

Sometimes, in cases where one party has given up trying to be heard, we have to acknowledge and understand their feelings before they are open to hearing ours.

This I have tried to explain to my family many times, telling me it was a joke or I'm too sensitive or it wasn't meant that way only does me more harm than the simple act of saying "I'm sorry, I hurt your feelings. I'll try not to do that again".

Some people with strong personalities do trample others needs without even really meaning too. Even then, others have the right to live their lives differently and decide who they want to spend time with.

I've been thinking about this.

I don't know if I should but I don't hate my mum.

I hate her behaviour.

Those behaviours needed to change so I could feel loved and love myself but they didn't so I estranged.

She doesn't love me enough to change her behaviour and I tried very hard to show her why it hurt.

Apparently that needed to come out.

We have been met with a wall of silence and when 'experiences' have been talked about, they've consisted of false allegations

I cannot see how this could be read as in any way suggesting that not having witnesses to abuse allegations means the allegations are false!

Smileless did not say what the allegations towards her were, whether it was allegations of abuse or allegations about behaviours or things said or whatever. It was very clear that she was talking about HER perspective on HER experience of estrangement, nothing else. She is entitled to give her perspective on her estrangement on this thread.

Despite her own experiences she has not allowed that to cloud her judgement in commenting to blindedscience at all, recognising their difficult decision as absolutely the right one in the toxic circumstances of their upbringing.

"not having witnesses to abuse allegations does NOT make them false" is absolutely true. Just to be clear that I am not suggesting otherwise.

Thank you Madgran

Well.. suffering as a child, meant I refused to suffer as an adult. Parents, long gone, can no longer hurt me. When asked, I have always painted an idyllic childhood. Perhaps I am in denial, but I know forgiving them for their transgressions has released me from the ghosts of the past. My slant on being abused, back then, has left me thinking they were co dependent on each other. And had no idea how to raise kids

Must be nearly 50 years ago I read a book by a well known psychologist, sorry name escapes me, who said something like 'you can look at what has happened and let it ruin your life or accept it and move on' this is what she chose to do. It seemed like good advice.

I read a similar book 40plus years ago, the message was the best revenge is living well. I’m not recommending revenge in any way but, the message to live our lives well is a good one.
It’s not easy to process, work through traumatic experiences but neither is living a life defined by them.

I find it interesting how an estranged adult son/daughter looks back on their childhood and its a completely different story to what their parents say happened. Dont get me wrong Im not accusing anyone of lying. Are they exaggerating the truth or masking their insecurities in an attempt to fit in with their peers, kids sometimes insist they've either endured similar experiences as their friends to get attention. In time they believe in their own mind that these things actually happened when in reality it never happened the way they said it did.

I have never come accross that myself calmlocket but even if that happens, most EAC do not estrange until well into adulthood which disproves that as a theory.

Abusers don't magically stop being abusive the moment a child hits 18 or moves out from the family home. They have conditioned their child to accept abuse and they keep abusing you.

I was 37 years old when my mums behaviour and the distruction she caused with my other relationships finally caused me to have a breakdown. I went and sought mental health help and learned that my mother was abusive and this will never change.

37 years of thinking that she didn't love me because there was something wrong with me... The problem was her all along. 37 years of thinking, maybe it's not that bad, maybe I am too sensitive, maybe I deserve this treatment.

This article explains common reasons adult children estrange:

wehavekids.com/family-relationships/adult-child-estranged-reasons

@ VioletSky, Sorry I really should have added ' from my own experience', my side of the 'story' is a completely different story to the ones my daughters tell! I fully understand why estrangement happens when a child has an awful childhood with abusive parents, but there are some of us who dont understand when its like a bolt out of the blue and theres abolutely no logical reason you can see why youve been cut off!

Yes resolution relies on communication resuming, but it takes two to have that conversation! and if one doesnt listen theres no resolution.There are all different types of estrangement its not as black and white as people seem to think.

Peer pressure can be a factor Calmlocket as is the disturbing incidence of false memories. There's also the actions of a coercive, controlling and manipulative partner.

Our ES's wife had a difficult and troubled childhood. I knew her mother very well before she and our son met which is how I know that some of what our ES has said in relation to his childhood is in fact what happened in her's and not in his.

"In time they believe in their own mind that these things actually happened when in reality it never happened the way the way they said it did", yes that happens. It's frightening isn't it.