I've been estranged from my mother and step-father for 5 years now. I justified the choice as protecting my kids from the same damage I suffered as a child. It was a choice borne of desperation, and no one "won" as a result of it.
I see a recurring narrative here - one of refusal to allow the AC to win by refusing them to establish their own narrative. My hope is to convince you that, if they've truly gone NC, your AC isn't trying to win. NC isn't a tactic - it's a disengagement. They've completely left the field behind.
My story might not apply to you. Hopefully it'll give you some perspective. If not, I simply ask for your empathy throughout.
My family had it in for me as a child. My stepfather did everything he could to ensure my home wasn't a haven and my self-esteem never got too high. It was clear his own child was the one expected to do great things. I learned to evade him, but poor self-esteem meant I was bullied both at home and school.
My mother, for her part, I believe actually cared, but did little to protect me. In the vein of tough love/teaching me about the world, she also prevented me from getting my driver's license, and set up artificial hurdles for me to attend college.
At the end of Junior High School I broke. Low self-esteem manifested as Narcissistic Personality Disorder, a scar I carried for decades.
But, here's something important: because of my NPD, I've learned not to trust any of my memories from high school or my early adulthood, unless I can find physical artifacts or other people who can recount the same situation.
As I began to wake up from my NPD and I sought treatment, I realized I had put my early life to bed by accepting it as simply a case of neglect. My therapist, however, insisted that I consider it might have been abuse, instead. Re-litigating situations in this light, combined with my realization that my step-father's disrespect for me never ended, caused me intense distress that I needed my mother to help me work through.
It's at this point that my mother completely failed me. Instead of listening to my story/narrative, and helping me to understand her own version of the story, she shut down and refused to talk to me. Around that time, the family superstar started in with their attacks, and other members of the family began attacking me as well. Their "story" was that I was having a nervous breakdown and nothing I remembered ever happened.
It's not all bad. I had other siblings who confided in me that they remembered the same things I did, and that I got the worst of my tyrant step-father's behaviors, but that they weren't comfortable getting in the middle of the conflict.
I had small children, and they were already beginning to notice the favoritism for the superstar's kids. I went NC to protect myself and them.
And it's been gloriously peaceful. I no longer wake up in the middle of the night seething with rage over how I was treated, and what I feared for my kids. I'm sure my justification of doing it for my kids is only part of the story, though - protecting my own emotional state probably also made the decision easy.
In my own case, my family wasn't fulfilling any function in my life. Individual members were nice to be around, but the family as a whole was toxic.
But, there's one thing I'd like you to take away from my story:
My decision to go NC was borne from an inability of my family to engage with my story. There was a basic unwillingness to hear the story, give me any sort of credit for confronting my demons (which, I assure you, was hard as hell), or consider that there might be any reason for me to be unhappy with my childhood. Instead of addressing that there were very real issues going on presently, they got fixated on trying to refute things that happened decades ago, sometimes just telling me to get over it.
I didn't need an apology (which I see many of you bristling over) - all I needed was someone to tell me a different version of the story that wasn't an attempt to ridicule my own.
I'd suggest one thing and one thing alone if estrangement is hurting you - contact your AC and indicate that you'd like to listen to what they have to say, and hopefully they won't mind if you ask questions. Make sure you listen, and your questions are for clarification and aren't challenging their story. At this phase what is most needed is your listening and understanding their story, even if you make it clear you don't agree with the details.
Believe me, your AC knows you're not perfect. If they've gone NC, it means they've given up on trying to communicate with you. Resolution relies on communication resuming, and you can't do that if you won't listen to or understand their story.
Patience perhaps theworriedwell. When your GS's mum sees that allowing her son some freedom to make his own choices and that the ones he makes are sensible, and not detrimental to his well being, she'll be more relaxed and have more confidence in him making the right ones.
I hope so for her sake as much as his.
That's OK, no need to apologise
.
We all refer to our own situations/experiences, that is inevitable. Hopefully when we do, our situation/experience is relevant to the subject under discussion.
Allsorts
Violet, the reason I don’t come back is because it’s just going over old ground all the time. You bring everything round to your situation, abuse, which is sad as it must be something you can never forget.This thread is about no one winning in no contact. I feel sorry for any victim of emotional or physical abuse but that’s not something I have experienced or know of. I will not comment on your posts in future, I think really that’s for people that can identify with your situation.. Perhaps it could be helpful to have a post for victims of abuse and how they coped.
I think it is a bit harsh to say Violet brings everything back to her situation. You could say that about lots of us, I talk about my GSs situation, Smileless talks about her son and the influence of his wife. Don't most of us use our own experience as a point of reference?
Sorry to use you as an example Smileless but I just remembered you'd referenced your situation several times, as have I.
I think it is hard to acknowledge things and move on if you think they are the right thing to do.
My GS finds it hard as his mother won't accept that not allowing him a social life/to choose his own clothes/to choose his sixth form was being controlling. To her she was doing her best, keeping him safe. How do they move on.
I didn't say that you had said FMS wasn't credible freedomfromthepast or that you doubted my personal experiences.
You did say for you referring to FMS in situations other than sexual and physical cases minimises the victim and I said I don't think that's the case.
"Where possible, it has to be healthier to continue family relationships in which this simple truth is acknowledged". I agree Iam and estrangement in some families could be avoided if it is.
Yes I do agree, with situations where any kind of abuse is involved, they quite often aren't solvable in families until the abusive person is out of the equation.
When it's not abuse and its a clash of personalities, opinions, different ways of doing things.... Listening to each other and respecting each other is key.
My children are all very different to each other and they will have had different experiences growing up based on my age, what I have learned that has changed my parenting style, illness, working hours, their personalities, how well they get on with each other, outside influences.... All sorts of things really
I am hopeful that as long as I listen, if any issues do come up, we can work through them. I think I would always have to take the parent role, no matter how much they are now and will become my equal as adults, I see it as my responsibility first to listen and love them.
With the clear exception of abuse, particularly sexual abuse, I agree their are ‘no winners’ when either a parent or their adult child decides no contact is the only way forward.
I mention sexual abuse because perpetrators against their own children are likely to abuse grandchildren. Protective adults in those families may be few.
Most of us can identify things our parents did that we have been determined not to repeat with our own children. No doubt, our adult children have learned from our parenting style that there are things they’ll repeat, others they’ll avoid. Our place in the children is a factor. First children usually experience family life differently than the 4th or 5th child.
Where it’s possible, it has to be healthier to continue family relationships in which this simple truth is acknowledged.
Allsorts yes, and I contributed to the discussion with how I felt about No Contact based on my experience
I then contributed to the discussion about how I feel about FMS.
I have started my own threads. You came and misread what I said.
Stop telling me my thoughts aren't relevant. I'm just joining the discussions as I have a right too.
Violet, the reason I don’t come back is because it’s just going over old ground all the time. You bring everything round to your situation, abuse, which is sad as it must be something you can never forget.This thread is about no one winning in no contact. I feel sorry for any victim of emotional or physical abuse but that’s not something I have experienced or know of. I will not comment on your posts in future, I think really that’s for people that can identify with your situation.. Perhaps it could be helpful to have a post for victims of abuse and how they coped.
"IMO the fact that despite being a debated theory, it is presented during some court proceedings does give it some credibility freedomfromthepast. I don't agree that accepting FMS being applicable in cases where there hasn't been sexual or physical abuse minimises the victim or the one being falsely accused when that is the case.
Bearing in mind the post in which I mentioned FMS, I think it's a shame that this has been taken over as being only relevant and worthy of consideration where that is the case, especially as my personal experience has shown me otherwise."
I never said it wasn't credible. I said it wasn't diagnosable. That is true. There is no diagnosis code available in the ICD used in Europe and DSM used in the US. A licensed professional can not officially diagnose False Memory Syndrome and, as I found in my research, psychiatry professionals are divided on the theory.
I also said I believed that memories CAN be influenced.
See right there:
"While I do believe that our memories can be influenced, I will use caution when using the label False Memory Syndrome in the future now that I have been able to learn more about it"
I decided that I personally would limit MY use of the label based on what I have read in regards to its past use in the legal field and it's lack of use in the field of psychology. I never once said that I doubted your experience or that your experience was not relevant or worthy of consideration.
That's the problem when it becomes abuse focused Allsorts. Good post @ 21.42.
Posts being misread, unwarranted comments and being ignored has certainly been my experience on this thread today.
The problem is Allsorts that everything you are saying works both ways, I could reverse it all and say it to you.
If it is fine to say it to me, you should be saying it to others, estranged parents too.
I'm afraid EAC use these threads. We have every right too. It doesn't mean we don't have happy healthy lives or even if we aren't fully healed yet, that we are harming ourselves using these threads.
Are you harming yourself using them?
Previously on other posts you have misread what i said and made comments that were unwarranted and when I have patiently explained to you, you haven't come back and ignored me.
I think you should take your focus off me and worry about healing yourself.
I would add a win to some is control. Perhaps of the situation, the person, or the conversation.
Just left a person who tries to manipulate conversations to hurt or embarrass another.
Sorry, my post isn't exactly on topic.
Allsorts I think you have made some good points.
Violet, I really can’t see anywhere I have said anything unspeakable. I was simply saying that two people have different recollections of events. You have made this about abuse. We are talking about estrangement where no abuse has occurred, not saying that it never happens. It can be a clash of personality, jealousy or control, the grandchildren are not in any danger but the parents estrange so the grandchildren are not permitted contact, so they lose out as well as grandparents, so no winners. Some people just have to win, to be right, regardless.
Shrug all you like, the truth is the truth.
<<shrug>>
Like I said I will stick with the facts, there really aren't 3 sides of the truth, there is just the truth.
Like I said, do and think whatever you're comfortable with, it makes no difference to me.
Well I will stick with the facts thanks. You can't make something truth if it isn't and I read that as something you'd say if you were trying to minimise something.
Read into it whatever you like theworriedwell, it really makes no difference to me at all how it sits with you.
Chewbacca
Here you are theworriedwell
Is that supposed to prove that if you hit me with the piece of wood but said you didn't that is then one version of the truth? Sorry I don't buy that, if someone lies about something it is a lie not one side of the truth.
theworriedwell
Abusers would just say
~That didn't happen and if it did it wasn't that bad and if it was you deserved it~
Emotional abuse leaves scars too so we know they are there even if others can't see them.
Here you are theworriedwell
You have VS and I've told you where, when and how but you've simply ignored what I have said.
No one is twisting what you have said "to use it against(you)",, that does appear to be your 'go to' response when you're being disagreed with.
IMO the fact that despite being a debated theory, it is presented during some court proceedings does give it some credibility freedomfromthepast. I don't agree that accepting FMS being applicable in cases where there hasn't been sexual or physical abuse minimises the victim or the one being falsely accused when that is the case.
Bearing in mind the post in which I mentioned FMS, I think it's a shame that this has been taken over as being only relevant and worthy of consideration where that is the case, especially as my personal experience has shown me otherwise.
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