The torture of going NC - nobody wins

When my grandfather, a man who had a great deal of psychological control over me, tried to implant a memory age 8. It was based off a real memory of a trick my stepfather used to do that involved snapping 2 layers of belt with my fingers between them, it didn't hurt but I was afraid it wouldso he used that fear. Also it did not stand up to scrutiny, not for the time it took for the adults around me to start screaming at each other. I knew he hadn't beat me with a belt. The moment the man I was so afraid of stopped telling me it had happened I stopped believing it.

Obviously I was severely punished for a long time and I was never allowed to forget it in adulthood even after my mum was told what had actually happened and why but that's on her.

I think psychiatric conditions are hard to diagnose. It isn't like an xray for a broken leg. I used to work in a mental health setting, not a healthcare professional I was in an admin role. I was amazed at times when someone who had been treated for a condition for 30 years would suddenly have a different condition when seen by a new psychiatrist. It certainly can't be diagnosed by non professionals.

Smileless it truly doesn't invalidate your experience to say that it's not in the DSM and likely won't be for good reason. I'm a sexual abuse survivor which is why I am aware of how much damage their organisation has done to sexual abuse survivors and rape victims. Your son hasn't accused you of that.

As you describe, he is telling you things that are false. That doesn't mean he "remembers" them.

European Psychiatry. False Memory Syndrome a Review and Emerging Issues Following a Clinical Report.

FMS is caused by memories of a traumatic episode most commonly in childhood sexual abuse which are objectively false but in which the person emphatically believes.

The pseudomemories usually arise in the context of adult psychotherapy and are often quite vivid and emotionally charged.

FMS is rare and sometimes could be confused with psychiatric disorder and malingering. The infrequency with which it's encountered makes the syndrome a diagnostic challenge.

Failure to diagnose can lead to significant morbidity. Physicians should be alert to and keep an open mind about the iatrogenic (relating to illness caused by medical examination or treatment) disorder.

freedomfromthepast 27 years they tried to get false memory syndrome into the DSM and failed.

I do hope that narcissistic victim syndrome will make it in though. I expect the argument against would be that it might be diagnosing the abuser without their presence. I will have to wait and see.

I rarely do bother using the label "narcissist" for my mother. Like you, I think she probably is one but I know that it doesn't change the reality of the damage her abusive behaviour did. It is helpful when searching for help and resources though.

When I first started posting on GN, I saw many posts that cautioned labeling people without a diagnosis. Especially in regards to being a narcissist. This seems to have evolved the last 2 years into these labels being used by posters quite a bit.

It is my opinion, that we as humans, look for these labels to make sense of what is happening in our lives. It gives us reasons that we may be searching for what has happened to us. But should we actually be using these labels is the question?

In my own experience, my mother was emotionally abuse and certainly toxic to my and my children's mental health. I do believe she has narcissistic traits and fully believe that she would be diagnosed as a narcissist. But we know that is rare as narcissists rarely seek treatment. Should I label her a narcissist? Not really.

While I have heard of false memory syndrome in the past, it wasn't until this thread that I looked more into it as I wanted to learn.

False Memory Syndrome does not seem to be an actual diagnosis. Nothing in the DSM or ISC. I did read the history and learned that the term was used mostly in cases of sexual assault on children. I am not sure what I feel about using this label in scenarios other than sexual or violent assault on a child. I do not believe it was ever intended to be used in anything other than a legal defense.

I could definitely see how my mother would latch onto the label False Memory Syndrome to explain to people that she was not abusive. Emotional abuse is very hard to see. I could look at her denial of the truth and call it gaslighting.

I try to remember that every single case is unique for the people involved. Of course it is best that parties in conflict discuss the conflict to get to the bottom of it, but that can not always happen. And even when it does, it may not work.

For me, it is best to not label people as I do not find it helpful for MY healing. If I call my mother a narcissist, that stops me from looking at and accepting any role I may have had in the relationship. If she labels me with False Memory Syndrome, that stops her from looking at her role in the breakdown of our relationship.

I chose to estrange my mother because she was abusive to me and my children AND because she chooses to deny it. I have spent many years in therapy trying to find my role in any conflict in my life. I have accepted my role, made changes to myself and moved on. What I think is the most important in my journey is that, I no longer need her to see her role in things to find peace. I now only feel sadness that she is unable to admit her role in the breakdown of our relationship and because of that we will never have a one.

Smileless you might want to read this, it isn't the article I remember reading a while ago but it does explain that it is not a recognised syndrome and where it originated.

www.rasasc.org.uk/farewell-to-false-memory-syndrome/

I posted @ 9.07 this morning how our ES has talked about incidents in his childhood that never happened, but were in fact incidents from his wife's.

Please do not invalidate my experiences when it comes to false memory syndrome by saying "If it does exist and I'm not sure that it does" VS.

No Summerlove it happens with adults and it does exist. Some less than reputable therapists have been found to have implanted false memories in their clients.

Looking "back on the past more fondly than it actually was" is not what false memory syndrome is. Likewise, looking back on the past less fondly than it was isn't either.

False memories are specific and relate to events that never happened, not a general overall perspective.

Summerlove

Is false memory symptom something that only happens to children?

If it does exist and I'm not sure it does, yes it would have to work both ways and parents may look back on the past more fondly than it actually was

VioletSky

I don't know if people would agree with this but I feel the way, for abuse victims especially, to love or even just like yourself, is to accept what has happened to shape you and move forward from there.

Well my strategy with GS is to love bomb him, make sure he can have fun, make sure he knows we are proud of him and not trying to control him. I have 2 years before he goes off to uni and I hope we can turn it round, the signs are positive.

I have GS living with me as he is estranged from his mother and father not around. I think one of the big issues is parents don't always recognise their behaviour is abusive.

His mother would say she is a wonderful mother, he has always been well dressed, well fed and after school activities. However, he wasn't allowed out, wasn't allowed (at 16) to choose his own clothes, wasn't allowed to choose where to go to 6th form, had no pocket money which obviously restricted him being able to do anything. He wasn't allowed to go to social things like schoolfriends parties.

We have arranged meeting for them to try and discuss it but she is adamant she did nothing wrong, in fact everything she did was the best.

Where do you go with that?

I’m ducking my head down very low, but I don’t think this constantly rehashing abuse, real or perceived, does any good. You can’t alter it, we all know it’s wrong, that it’s not the child’s fault, so why constantly pick away at a scab, it just keeps bleeding. You have to leave the past where it is and make the most of today, to get a future worth having. I cannot imagine always having my mind back 20, 30 or 40 years, what is the point? It must be awful living with someone like that. Lots of us get dealt bad hands in life, we have to let it go. I have a friend who talks non stop about her growing up, I know every uncle cousin etc, every holiday and day trip, because she’s told me so many times, I can’t understand why, I have tried everything to change the subject but all comes back to it, it’s got so I have distanced myself as don’t want to hear the same thing, she’s been like this for ages now, years, she didn’t used to be like it. I see her because of our long history but it’s
very wearing.

Is false memory symptom something that only happens to children?

I think that applies to anyone who has had suffered any type of trauma or upsetting experience at the hands of another and for me is the difference between being a victim and a survivor.

I agree with that too Iam we can be strengthened by our past and take pride in having moved beyond the trauma, defining ourselves by what we have accomplished and not being defined by how badly others have treated us.

I don't know if people would agree with this but I feel the way, for abuse victims especially, to love or even just like yourself, is to accept what has happened to shape you and move forward from there.

I’m not recommending revenge in any way but, the message to live our lives well is a good one.
It’s not easy to process, work through traumatic experiences but neither is living a life defined by them.

Great post Iam64, agree completely.

I can meet you at rare Smileless

calmlocket I am not saying that

This post is about listening to your adult child. There is a reason they are saying what they do, whether that is mental illness, the influence of another abusive adult or actually because they don't like the way they were parented, the only way through it is to listen.

Of course the problem with that is that we react. If our children tell us something that we think is not true, it becomes an argument. Listening and finding them the right support could change that.

"The only two people who know if abuse DID happen are the "victim/s" and the alleged "abuser"" indeed DiamondLily.

Rare I accept but very rare, I disagree with.

I used to work for a child protection unit, some years ago, and all scenarios come into play. Physical abuse and sexual abuse is often picked up on, by agencies, emotional abuse/neglect leaves no physical scars or forensics, and often slips through all nets.

Some people get away with abuse, because it cannot be proven. Others suffer real pain and hurt, because they’ve been accused of something they know they didn’t do..

Emotional abuse is hard to quantify. What was “acceptable” parent/teacher behaviour decades back might be viewed differently today.

I was bought up from the 50’s, and life was different then. Parents today are much more aware and flexible.

Young children generally tell the truth, teenagers and young adults sometimes make false allegations, for their own reasons. It happens to teachers a lot.

Dubious counsellors have encouraged and facilitated “false memory syndrome”. Internet sites and pods can also encourage this thinking. Too many amateur psychologists around!

Everyone has a different experience of their childhood and their parenting, life goes on, and I suppose people do what makes THEM happy in the end.

The only two people who know if abuse DID happen are the “victim/s” and the alleged “abuser”.

You cannot possibly know that VS regardless of how much training, experience and education you have had. And as far as "not blaming abused children for other children estranging" that is my experience, as I have already posted.

As you yourself said earlier, EC don't estrange until adulthood
so, the person's experience of abuse during childhood can and is at times used to influence another into estranging.

"It's easier once you draw a line" yes it is Allsorts and as you say the hardest part is getting to that point.

Its not as rare as you think VioletSky, your coming across that every child that is estranged because of parental abuse!
In studying lying behavior in children, researchers have found that even young children can manage certain kinds of lies (such as denying that a certain event took place) though they are especially prone to "leakage," i.e., verbal or non-verbal cues suggesting that they are not being truthful. As children become more mature, however, their ability to carry off a convincing lie and control leakage becomes much greater. They also become better at elaborating on earlier lies by providing new details to make the original lie seem more plausible. And given the importance of child testimony in forensic cases, especially when child physical or sexual abuse is suspected, the potential role of adult "coaching" of children who are encouraged to distort the truth has become the focus of numerous studies over the past 20 years.

Children lying about being abused is again, very rare.

They obviously would need a lot of help and support to understand why that is happening because usually there is a reason behind lies like that.

In my case I accused my stepfather of hitting me with a belt. Something my mother has never forgiven me for.

In that case again though, there was an abusive adult behind it, my grandfather sexually abused me and he convinced me of that because he hoped I'd end up living with him as my father wasn't really in a position to have me.

I was 8 years old.

Here is where children like me were failed back then because my mother just assumed me to be a horrible lying child. She didn't do the work to understand why I would say that. She didn't put it together with my being upset when I came home from his house, or my saying I didn't want to share a bed with him.

People don't put the clues together, that's why safeguarding is so important now.