SUPPORT for all living with estrangement

Thanks Derbyshiregirl Yes they are inciting hatred , unfortunately. It won't be helped either with the news that Austria is making the vaccinations compulsory. These people will use anything to push their agenda or twist facts to make a point. I appreciate that you got what I meant. I hope that by speaking out, it may help someone who may be reading.
You're spot on about dehumanizing behaviour.

I can only hope for the sake of my GC and DiL that my ES sees through these conspiracy theories. Last time we spoke he was talking about home schooling my GC to prevent them any access to a normal life. They are still in their formative years, so it is concerning. I am less concerned for my DiL because she's an adult and chose my son, though it is sad for her.

You're right Smileless in removing themselves from our lives they have also prevented our parents and other relatives from seeing their kids too. I have often thought, I could understand it if my son still talked to his GP / aunty/uncles etc and just had nothing to do with me.... In many ways that would be more hopeful for him because at least he would have had someone. He often seemed to have good relationships with his GP on both sides, so to cut them off as well seems unbelieveable. You're right, it's not just us that suffers.

I'm so glad your DS in Perth has had his vaccines, Smileless. My youngest also works somewhere where he had to get vaccinated, so I was really relieved.

So sad for your pain ladies, all of you It's definitely a hard time of year. We have decided we will send a gift of our choice to the GC because we've not had anything sent back- and because GC are young enough to be easily pleased by anything we choose (even though we have no expectations of seeing that happiness) We are wavering between sending an empty Christmas card to ES and DiL or including a voucher, also with no expectation.

Thank you for all the kind words. It is hard at times but I do get texts from my daughters two girls and hopefully they are coming to stay in two weeks time on a saturday night.

I cried when I got home today though. Going around the supermarket and the christmas songs are starting to be played. Christmas cards for daughters etc. I will continue to send her a card with a gift voucher but how can I buy a card that says Wonderful Daughter when I haven’t seen her in 7 years. I feel so down in the dumps today but I have started to paint a snow scene (watercolour). I need to keep busy today.

Smileless - you hit the nail on the head as always. Not just us, but great grandparents are denied seeing their gc. The ripple effect is huge. My mil's last words to me before she died were is our EC ok? Are they happy?
I also agree we move forwards with milestones. When we finally decided to stop sending gifts/cards which were never acknowledged, it was a massive step in helping us to heal. In helping us to accept what was/is.
We think about them everyday, but not with any expectation of things ever changing. At times I feel sad, at times angry, but mostly now I just hope they are happy and at peace.

"It's when they suddenly decide we are no longer of use to them" that comes across in so many people's experiences Socksandsocks and demonstrates just how cold and calculating it can be.

I think in some cases estrangement is a punishment, even if there's been nothing to deserve it, lies are told to give the decision justification and the P's and GP's aren't the only ones who get punished.

GC are punished too, by having the GP's they know and love taken from them as are other family members. GGM's like mine and Mr. S.'s mum who don't to see the their GC and GGC.

Yes, she does say we're Lepers Whiff. For so long hidden away by our silence, feeling on the fringes of society because we don't have that 'normal' family we think everyone else has.

Until you experience it, you have no idea that when someone says they don't see their children that they may be estranged. You think, if you think about it all, that they live in another country perhaps, or even 100's of miles away, and what's meant is they don't see them very often, not never.

It does feel at times as if we're treated like Lepers doesn't it DSL and there were times in the early days that that was how we felt because sometimes people who knew, would appear uncomfortable when we were around, as if we were somehow contagious.

It must be such a worry for you Onward. Our DS has been pretty ambivalent about the vaccine. Living in Perth, Aus. where the numbers have been extraordinarily low perhaps a false sense of security!!

We were relieved when he told us that as a teacher, he has to be vaccinated or he wouldn't be allowed to work. A push that got him off the fence thank goodness.

We never sent gifts Allsorts just cards to the GC for birthdays and at Christmas but we stopped doing that this year, just buying one now for the memory box. No longer feeling the need to send one in the post felt like another milestone past on our road to recovery.

Good luck with the knitting Spring my gran and mum were fabulous knitters; unfortunately I didn't inherit the 'knitting gene'. Managed one matinee jacket when carrying DS in comparison to a huge selection of beautifully knitted garments provided by my gran.

Thank you Whiff - so much of what you wrote in your last post resonated with me. So very thankful for the lovely folk here who (sadly) know what we’re going through and offer not pity but support! Meeting a friend later, then with these dark evenings will maybe get to grips with my attempt to knit (I’m a newbie to it) or do some jigsawing which I LOVE! Wishing you all a good day, fellow warriors! ?

So true Whiff. Things are more talked about now aren't they. Which is good. I think our offspring are selfish as well. They don't abandon us when we have money. It's when they sudden decide we are no longer of use to them. Or one of them takes exception to something. Mine tells his wife he had a bad childhood and I was a terrible mother. All lies. I wasn't perfect but I'm not the monster he is making me out to be. He is the first person I think of every morning.

Strange you should said being treated like Lepers DerbyshireLass and Socks . The book I am reading says abandoned parents are the new Lepers. In fact we are treated worse than Lepers. At least that is treatable nowadays. And people understand it's a disease and not a punishment. Where as estrangement by our children feels like a punishment to me.

I have been tried ,convicted and sentenced for a crime I didn't even know I committed. So had no chance to defend myself. Didn't even see it coming . Had a wonderful time with my son on my birthday then WHAM that email . What did he think I know I will give the old cow a lovely time before he tore the family apart. I remember reading the email and it felt like my husband dieing all over again. Except my son, daughter in law and grandson's are alive. He knew about my heart did they have a good laugh and hope they would give me a heart attack.

More fool them. I have no intention of kicking the bucket anytime soon. Anyway they will never know when I do. As I don't expect he will ever contact me again. And no one will contact him.

What this thread shows how common estrangement is . But at least it's coming out of the shadows where it has been hidden for so long. Thinking back years ago I heard people say they didn't see their children. But never really thought about it. If only I had known then what I know now I would have listened to them and perhaps they wouldn't have feel alone.

But it's like most things in life until it happens to you whatever it is you don't look for help and answers.

We are never to old to learn about new things no matter how painful. Knowledge is power . And armed with that knowledge we are able to move forward . Ok wobbles along the way. But life is full of wobbles but we get through them and get stronger everytime we do. I know it doesn't always feel like it but we do. By posting on here proves it.

We are an army of Warrior Queens sadly getting new members but at least they know they are not alone and it's their first step to becoming Warrior Queens to.

Derbyshire lass. I agree. Lepers of the 21st century.

Socks. That must be so painful for you. You must be so hurt.

I sometimes feel like we are being treated like lepers.

Hatred not hated.

Onward.....I am so sorry to read about your sons views and attitude. Yes he has definitely been brainwashed. So sad for you and from what you've said your DIL and GC are also being affected by this. Very worrying for you.

I do think a lot of the anti vaxxers have been brainwashed. Their arguments against being vaccinated just don't make sense.

I can understand someone being concerned about adverse effects from vaccination and that some people may have concerns that the vaccine was "rushed" through but they forget it's because the scientific community and governments all collaborated with developing and funding that we've been so successful at developing a vaccine in record time. Plus I believe a lot of the research was already established because of the work that had been done on the SARS vaccine.

However, some of these conspiracy theories about the vaccine being some sort of tracking device or it having the power to alter our DNA is just stark staring bonkers. I just don't understand how people can be so gullible, but plenty of people do seem to have swallowed the lies and fallen for the scaremongering. Some of them apparently medical professionals who should of course know better.

When I was a child my mum refused to let me have the polio vaccine, despite polio still being pretty rife. The first thing I did when I reached 18 was to go and get my polio jabs.

Your comments about "de-humansing" the enemy is spot on.

The nazis took the writings of Nietzsche and his ideas about "super humans" and twisted them, along with ideas of eugenics that were kicking around at the time, and, well, we know how that ended up,

These people who are igniting all this hated about vaccinations and who are inciting actual violence need to be stopped but unfortunately the internet just isn't policed.

Sometimes I just despair of the human race...,,.,

Well I'm being treated like a cancerous growth. One that needs to be cut out. But his father aunt cousins and other have all had the same treatment years ago. So it was a matter of time. He rare called me unless he wanted a lift. It hurts dreadfully. I don't think I'd accept an apology or reconciliation but it still hurts that they turned on me.

Ps sorry I did end up repeating myself.
Also want to point out that when I say Trans Human I am referring to

"Definition of transhuman
: transcending human limits : SUPERHUMAN
his profound intimation of transhuman magnificence—the alien grandeur of nature"
— Robert Fitzgerald

Nothing to do with being trans. and sorry if I offended anyone.

Derbyshirelass Yes I think I did dodge a bullet. I was shocked that he talked about me as if I was already dead or about to die just because I was vaccinated. I do not believe he would have continued to talk to me if I had invested, I believe he would have found a way to scam the money for himself. He believes that the vaccine alters DNA meaning that we are not related anymore and that anyone who has had it is "trans human".

The thing is, if someone believes that someone else is not even human, they won't treat you as well as they would if they believed you were a human that was related to them. He has been brainwashed online.

Apparently criminals view their victims as "less than human" I have been reading, like the Nazi's viewed the Jews as "rats" to make their abuse more "justifiable" and slave owners throughout history believed their slaves were sub human, in order to justify their abuse. It all makes sense to me why he's treated me so badly. He was brainwashed online, unfortunately.

No worries, whiff. It wasnt you.

Derbyshire, I bought presents too and have always send cards. She estranged me, I didn’t estrange her. Don’t bother now, my gd lives away I don’t know where. It didn’t break the bank doing what I did, they probably got sent to a charity shop, I hope so if they didn’t want them.
Pixie, I’m sorry you feel so low, your youngest son sounds great, the others are just thoughtless, I don’t think they imagine how lonely it can be on your own, their lives are probably very full. They might miss us when we’ve gone.

No worries Whiff.

DerbyshireLass sorry if I have upset I would hate to do that to you and other estranged parents.

Smiles sorry if I have caused a fuss.

Estrangement is horrible for everyone impacted by it

Don't worry DSL it wont.

Please do not let this thread degenerate into an us and them.

It's bad enough that we are either estranged, semi estranged in the first place. Does it really matter who estranged who. Is not the grief, pain and suffering that estrangement causes enough to bring us together to support each other and share coping strategies.

Whether we are the estranged or the estrangees we still feel sadness and loss. Isn't that enough without the thread descending into unpleasant point scoring, shaming or blaming.

This is not an EP oriented thread Hithere as the contributions from EAC clearly demonstrate.

Yes freedomfromthepast this is a support thread for all who live with estrangement, originally started by an EP/EGP and probably due to this being GN is predominantly used by them.

There were several threads last year for EAC and were shut down because of the unpleasantness they created. Unfortunately they tended to degenerate into EP/EGP bashing threads which included some extremely disturbing and extreme examples of abusive parents, not from posters personal experiences thankfully, but taken from sites for EAC.

IMO the success of this support thread is due to posters talking about their own experiences which TBH are shocking enough, and the sharing of coping mechanisms we find helpful.

For those of us who were affected by what happened last year, there's an understandable degree of wariness. I'm certain that there's no intention from any of the regular posters here for this thread to be exclusive, rather the desire that it remains a safe place for all.

The title of this thread "support for all living with estrangement
EAC also live with estrangement daily

If you truly want to make it EP oriented - a change of title is in order

freedom there are several threads for those who have estranged their parents due to abuse of any sort.

Here is mainly parents whose children have estranged them. And because they can talk about what their child or children have done they feel safe to talk about their childhood and their parents.

Any way glad you know who I mean .

I post on here because it is for parents who have been estranged by their children . In my case my son. I have no idea why and never saw it coming.

If you have read the other parts of this thread you see what I mean about who mainly posts here.