Sign for grandchildren

I'm not in this situation but thinking about it, much as I love my GCs and as upset and distressed as I would be were I to be told by their parents I wasn't welcome in their lives, I hope I could make a decision in the best interests of the GCs I love. I don't think expecting a child to insist they had contact with me would help them. Especially if doing so required some sort of legal action and acting against the parent's wishes. I hope I would be strong enough to accept what had happened and let them go for a time.
I do think in the era of social media and mobile phones it will be increasingly difficult for parents to prevent contact between the child and GPs, and perhaps building towards what will happen what they become teenagers would be better for all concerned, rather than trying to inflict legal intervention on the problem.

I’ve thought and thought about this and I can’t see how it would actually work in practice if the premise is children’s right to see their grandparents.

Not when the children are young.

Given that the parents have physical custody of the child and are the ones denying access, how would a young child bring an action n law to gain their rights?

Would grandparents be able to bring an action on their behalf? Or would it need to be an independent outside agency?

At what age would it be considered that the child was able voice and understand the implications of exercising their rights. 8years maybe. Who would decide the rights of younger children?

There are a whole load of other practical difficulties that I can see in this proposal. Of course there is a massive emotional issue here whether you are for or against. But being me, I always have to ask how would this work and I don’t think it would.

It’s far too simplistic a petition and hasn’t been thought through as a legal, amendment to the Children’s Act, proposal.

There are a whole load of other practical difficulties that I can see in this proposal. Of course there is a massive emotional issue here whether you are for or against. But being me, I always have to ask how would this work and I don’t think it would.

It wouldn’t work.

There are people other than grandparents who enjoy loving and significant relationships with children, so where would it stop?

What about other extended family members. Aunts, uncles, cousins etc. What about anyone who has a significant relationship with the child? Lifelong friends of the parents, step parents etc. What if the child has had multiple step parents? Could all these people apply for access to the children.

And if grandparents were granted automatic contact with their grandchildren, would that prevent the family moving? What if they wished to give their children a better life in say, Australia, could grandparents stop this on the basis that they could not exercise their right to contact with the children?

Similarly, would this prevent families moving to different parts of the country or would they be forced to forever live within a 30 minute distance of the grandparents’ home in order that grandparents can exercise their right to contact?

It is madness. And it’s not going to happen.

To be able to text the grandchild gifts sent and the child allowed to have them would be a start and enough for some grandparents and the child.. It would be a start.

I do think in time unless abuse is involved adult children who have lost out on their grandparents will be questioning why.

I can see that a text doesn’t seem much to ask. But then would he parents have access to the texts? It couldn’t be set up as a private thing. Would it be on the parents phone? Would a child have to have their own phone? At what age?

I honestly don’t know how this can be resolved but I don’t think this petition in the form it’s presented by the OP is going to change anything. It’s purely emotive and changes to Acts passed by Parliament don’t happen on that basis.

It needs some well researched statistics, some research on effects of estrangement on children, some practical ways forward to justify why it’s needed, not just one person’s story.

Responsible parents aways check children's phones...

This subject needs to be looked at. It could be one day an adult grandchild who will start the process.

My grown daughter has said that if her gma ever contacts her she is going to tell her all about where she can go. She remembers her. The younger ones trust their sister and have no interest. Gma is pretty old now so I think that ship has sailed.

Not all grandchildren will have that experience of grandparents.

I've said this before but I'd never stand beteeen my children and their grandmother as adults. I wouldn't stand between them at any point they were responsible enough to understand the decision they were making. As minor children that is a different matter.

This has been brought up several times that one day grandchildren can and will reach out should they choose too...

What also needs to be considered is that, a grandparent going to court and losing would go against them. In that potential outcome, if courts go against them, and making this process easier to start won't change that, the outcome will impact the child's later decisions. Couple that with any remembered stress during the process and it will have a huge impact on the grandchild's later choice on the matter.

Going to court not only sabotages chances of a future relationship with a child it also does so with the grandchild.

Forced visitation with a grandchild, that means a child must go whether they want to or not and miss out on things they would rather do or controls their social lives and activities will also have a negative impact on the future relationship with the grandparent.

It could be trisha that if the GC and GP's in this situation were able to use social media, together with all the other means of communication I referred to earlier, that that would be sufficient in maintaining the relationship, and GP's wouldn't feel the need to go to court for contact.

We certainly wouldn't have had a problem if we were texting out GC via text messages, if their parents had access to them Peasblossom, why would we, or any responsible GP for that matter.

I totally agree with you that this subject needs "some research on effects of estrangement on children", that that would be far more beneficial than "just one person's story".

TBH GG I think bringing the possibility into this discussion that GP's may be able to prevent a family from moving away, simply because they had contact with their GC is ridiculous. We are talking about contact here, not custody.

As IMO is "forced visitation". If a child does not want to see their GP's, the p's can go back to court and have the contact order rescinded. It would never be in the best interests of a child to be forced to see their GP's, and it's the best interests of the child that are the focus here. Not their parents and not their GP's.

As they grow older some GC may well be asking why they don't see GP's from one or even both sides of the family Granniesunite. Those of us who are estranged can only wait and see.

I have quite a good understanding of the court process through friends experiences and reading accounts from a group who fights grandparents rights (I'm one of them).

One does not simply "go back to court" when that costs time, money and more stress.

In that situation the grandparent should just allow the grandchild not to come otherwise it is a double standard

I’ve read the petition and feel more convinced not to sign. It’s badly worded and the reference to Star and Arthur unnecessary and emotive.
The children act sets out the child’s right to maintain contact with significant people. That could include grandparents, other relatives or an adult who had been actively involved in their lives.

Very well said smileless. Reasoned and sensible post.

Why is there "a group who fights grandparents rights"? For the umpteenth time GP's don't have any rights.

I'm sure any decent GP wouldn't insist on seeing their GC if the child didn't want to see them. I'm sure there are decent parents who wouldn't want to deprive their children of their GP's just because they (the parents) don't want to see them.

There will sadly be some GP's who wouldn't behave responsibly and in the best interests of the child(ren), just as there are parents who don't do so either.

Re the text messages, I suppose I was just mulling over all the details that would have to be specified in a change to the Children’s Act. That was just one that sounds minor but would need making clear specifically.

If access to grandparents became law maybe there would need to be a kind of drawing up of contracts? When I moved in with OH a couple of years ago we sa down with a solicitor and drew up a “Memorandum of Understanding” about how we were going to share the house, duties, expenses, family access and stuff. Maybe it would need something similar? Real details about what would be involved in the access?

Like I said I don’t think this petition is the way forward. There’s not been enough thought out into it. I think it will just muddy the waters.

But I don’t have any emotional involvement in this issue. It might be good that I can think about it dispassionately or maybe I should keep my thoughts to myself.?

"That could include grandparents, other relatives or an adult who had been actively involved in their lives". As far as I'm aware Iam the Children Act only includes family members.

No reason to keep your thoughts to yourself Peasblossom we should all be able to accept that not everyone has the same thoughts and opinions as ourselves.

It's a global group and an umbrella term for what it actually means, children do not go to court.

But it doesn't mean GP's rights VS, there is no such thing in law as GP's rights so why have a group fighting against something that doesn't actually exist?.

Thank you Granniesunite.

Because it does exist in some places and there are many parents like me who need to protect their children from the people who abused them so we fight against it, share information, legal advice, support people who can't afford a legal defense etc

You can call it "children's rights" but that doesn't change the outcome for parents like me, it's just semantics

Smilesless- it’s more likely in public law for significant people to be considered. Say a 14 year old is the subject of care proceedings, the proposal is a children’s home but the child says s/he wants to live with X, an adult neighbour, maybe the mother of a school friend for example.
Sorry if I extended away from the focus of the OP. I was attempting to confirm my view that the CA as it stands is ok.

I agree with Smilesless post at 12.53 today. It’s difficult to accept but whilst most people are reasonable, a few just aren’t. Going to law doesn’t always help and can entrench existing difficulties

Ah yes, I see what you mean Iam you've made a good point. It's a mine field of complexities isn't it.

TBH GG I think bringing the possibility into this discussion that GP's may be able to prevent a family from moving away, simply because they had contact with their GC is ridiculous. We are talking about contact here, not custody

Actually, if there is a contact order in place, you can’t just move with the children if it is going to effect the existing contact arrangements without the stress, time and expense of having to take it back to court. And perhaps being denied.

It is really not ridiculous at all. It is something that needs to be considered when advocating to erode the rights of a parent to make decisions for their own children.

I can't find anything that even suggests that if GP's have a contact order, that could prevent the child's family from moving away GG.

It only appears to apply when one of the parent's has a contact order and TBH where as it may will be enforced when this is the case, it's hardly likely to be so when the GP has contact.

GC65 is correct to say if a Contact Order is in place, one parent planning to move a distance away could well result in the matter being back before the Court.
Most families manage their contact arrangements without the need to involve the Family Court. Many contested applications are avoided by mediation with Cafcass or a mediator, often approved by the parents solicitor.
I can’t see it as adding anything positive to try and enshrine ‘grandparents rights’ in law.
If the family breakdown reaches that point, it’s unlikely to be resolved and will cause great distress to all concerned.

I should add, my own belief if that most grandparents offer so much that it’s tragic when they’re excluded.