Theoretical rather than a support thread

Interestingly, lots of us on the estrangement threads have talked of a positive and loving relationship with at least one grandparent, Gagajo.
I'm so glad I was one of them. My paternal GM was my idea of perfection as a child ?

I honestly believe that just because you are a blood relative to someone, doesn’t mean there has to be a strong bond, or any misplaced sense of duty.

My mother gave birth to me, that doesn’t mean I have to pay for it for my whole life.

We don’t like one another, I’ve admitted it, she would rather pretend it’s all down to me to save face.

I’m beyond caring.

On reflection, it must have been quite a strain for you, trying to re establish a relationship with your Father and bringing up a young family. Lots of conflicting emotions.
I'm glad for you the whole thing is over with.

Sara1954 did you have a positive relationship with any of your gp?

Namsnanny
I did, I think we spent a lot of time with them, my granny was totally different to my mum, but they were very close.
Looking back, I don’t think my mum coped very well with us, I spent lots of time with my dad as well

My paternal grandparents were wonderful thankfully. I'm trying to emulate their grandparenting with my DGS.

My maternal nan died young and my mother kept me away from her father. Paternal grandparents were abusive.

My Dad is a wonderful grandfather though, we just don't get to see him as much as we would like

I never met any of my grandparents.

Kate you went through a lot, you didn't owe your father any kindness in his old age, I hope you have peace now. There is sometimes little support for those with abusive parents

Thank you VioletSky. No there was no help, certainly not when I was growing up.

Hmm.

My parents had very black and white, ‘with us or against us’ mindset. They had no hesitation in cutting anyone out. They had to protect their dysfunction and abuse, after all.

Being estranged from them was an underlying threat as long as I can remember. Finally figuring out that being estranged was a blessing, not a curse, was life changing. Freeing. No regrets.

I think estrangement can become a family pattern, but that could be because a pattern within a family.

Our ES's wife's parents were estranged from various family members, they would reconcile with some but then estrange them again at a later date.

She estranged her parents on more than one occasion and following her marriage too, and having children with our ES, we are also estranged.

In my mind, estrangement is an outcome of poor family relationships. Those, I think, can run in families, but I don’t think estrangement generally does. Not in my experience both with my family and that of friends.

My DM had a difficult relationship with her DM and felt her brothers were favoured, and I have the same dynamic with my DM. My DF has periodically estranged himself from various family members but he suffers with exceptionally poor mental health and isn’t often in a good place, meaning I don’t think he makes fantastic decisions. His DM (my DGM) estranged her DF, but there were very serious circumstances behind that which were quite unforgivable. Otherwise DF is an isolated case in estranging people in his family, and there isn’t any estrangement on the other side. Some get on less well than others and don’t have much contact but everyone can smile and say hi/have a chat at family get togethers.

Pumpkin I agree with you an think the same, that estrangement is just one of many tools and it's poor family relationships that are the issue. I'm so different to many family members, I would never engage with all the gossip and talking behind backs that used to go on.

I think that's definitely a factor Pumpkin and sometimes not wanting too, being able too or knowing how to sort out issues before they escalate can be significant too.

"Some get on less well than others and don't have much contact but everyone can smile and say hi/have a chat at family get togethers". That's certainly a much better way of dealing with problems if at all possible.

As has already been said, there can be many reasons that result in estrangement and becoming a family pattern is just one of them.

Some get on less well than others and don’t have much contact but everyone can smile and say hi/have a chat at family get togethers.

I suspect this only works because everyone has the same level of expectations about the relationship.

Though it would be great If those who had mismatched expectations could do this. I suspect it would be too hard for most people who want higher levels of contact to keep it polite though

It's interesting what you said about your Mother using silence to punish while you use it to protect yourself Violetsky That makes a lot of sense to me as I think our Mother's may be similar.

My Mother has a history of estrangement, but I don't think my GP did...so its started with her from what I can see. Unfortunately one period when she estranged us really hurt my kids and probably taught them that if you really want to hurt someone you can always estrange them! Fortunately Im not estranged at the moment, but always concious of how delicate feelings and relationships are.

I think we are always looking for the reason why. Maybe we are looking for the cure? By we I mean, all that have had to estrange or have been estranged as a whole.

In my family, there was no estrangement. Everyone was happy to continue to cycle of abuse. Because when that is what you know, that is what is normal.

There was a lot of silent treatment though. Which is completely different than estrangement.

It is my opinion that estrangement seems more common now because younger generations talk more about mental health as a whole and are more likely than previous generations to stop relationships they feel are damaging, even if those relationships are family.

Heck, this generation will quit a job without having a new one in order to preserve their mental health. Good for them I say, but not something that I would have ever done.

What is normal is changing, as always.

Yes, being on the end of Silent Treatment feels very similar to Estrangement. I think I might have gotten Silent Treatment instead of Estrangement, but it's hard to know because I think they both feel painful.

Perhaps Estrangement starts as Silent Treatment and persists over time?

Sorry about your family's history of abuse Freedomfromthepast . I identify with that too. It is very hard to be the cycle breaker, but someone has to do it so we don't perpetuate what was done to us. It means we are the ones in therapy, willing to forgive and learn and change and grow- so we don't perpetuate unhealthy ways and learned behaviours.

PS You know the saying... "Im in therapy because of the other's who won't go to therapy!"

So different for me, I am part of a very large extended family as were my parents and grandparents. I have three sisters, we are godmothers to each other’s children, our children the same
with their cousins., we live in the same town.

When my darling daughter became very ill things changed, my sisters were supportive until ten months before she died then
silence, not even a telephone call when she took her life, so
silence for five years with the exception of an email on my daughter’s birthday from one sister who tells me she is thinking of me, I always reply .

I did ask her once why she didn’t contact me when my daughter died, she said she had her own grief to cope with, I do
know they were all distraught, they all loved her very much.

Only thing I can think of is, I am the eldest and was always the one they turned to for help. I long to be in contact with them again.

I don't know what to say Annie. The death of someone for so many is so difficult to talk about and even more so when they took their own life.

I cannot begin to imagine how terrible the loss of your DD has been and how that has been compounded by the loss of contact with your family. Do you feel you may be able to reach out to them and say how you long to be in contact again?

How sad Annie. I have read your story and my heart goes out to you. Not the same I know but my brother took his own life aged 24.
As for other people's reaction to bereavement and illness, my nephew contracted leukemia aged 16. The family rallied around obviously. Except for our older sister. She said it upset her too much to see him suffer. I don't understand that logic. So she was upset. That lad died in front of me when I was at the hospital visiting. Believe me, I was upset.

My inlaws had a pattern. Which followed through to their kids and now our kids. I had never come across it before but now it's here. My son stopped all contact with his sister in law which ended up no contact with his elder brother. My daughter in law regularly cut out her parents and half her family. Now I'm cut out of their lives too. But I'm not prepared to be treated like dirt or verbally and emotionally abused. I think it's part of life now.

That sounds very much like our ES's wife's family Socksandsocks so although not applicable in all cases, there does seem to be evidence that estrangement can be a pattern of behaviour in some families.