Friendship,advice and support if estrangement has affected your life.

Posted that as didn't want to lose it.

Toetoe if you feel up to it read this thread from the start or read the other parts of this thread that Smiles started. Why I was the OP for this part is due to GN politics. But it was Smiles who began it all.

Yogin and Allsorts are long time posters as are some others.

It takes courage to post the first time . It took me months of sending PMs to Smiles before I openly posted for the first time. You are more courageous than I was . Mind you I haven't shut up since. My brother says I have verbal diarrhoea. But I am just like it in real life.

Keep reading and post as often as you like. Here you are amongst friends. And I for one intend to live a long life as it will be a thorn in my son and daughter in law's side knowing I am still in the world. Plus I am lucky I am loved and cared for and love and care for family and friends. I have a wonderful daughter ,son in law and 2 grandson's . Their youngest is the only one of have seen weekly since he was 4 days old as I only moved to the north west nearly 3 years ago a move of 100+ miles. I now live 10 mins away from my daughter and 40mins by car from my son. I don't drive.

Any way in my long winded way Toetoe never wish your life cut short you have a sister who loves and needs you and you her. Just reread your posts. You have a son who loves you and that is precious.

I have said before our adult children think they are the perfect parents. News flash no such thing as perfect . We do the best we can . We give our children unconditional love and attention . That's why it hurts so much when they decide to cut you out of their live and take our grandchildren away. My son's boys are 5,3 and 1 . To young to choose but they will get older. My son and daughter in law are in for a rude awkaking when they turn round one day and tell their parents all the things they did wrong bringing them up.

I did have a kind and loving son up to 2 years ago . Now he is cruel and cowardly 2 things I never thought he would be.

Any way Toetoe you and your sister live a full life . Estrangement isn't the end but just a part of your lives know . But that is in the past a new present and future aways both of you. Estrangement is a living bereavement. You grief for people who are still alive. But you can live with it yes it's hard and we all have wobbles but that's what the thread is for.

Any way change if subject. Glad Mr S is so handy. Mr W was to but he was a klutz and couldn't do a simple job without cutting himself or hitting himself with something. He would come in with that stupid grin of his and need patching up. But he was my klutz my other half and still not whole since the day he died. But he was mine and me his true love . And not everyone has that . So I was lucky to have found him young . I miss everything about our life. Even ironing his shirts and I hate ironing. Haven't had an argument since he died. I used to think he picked them just so we had mind blowing make up sex. ??.

DerbyshireLass glad you are still.with us. Still walking an egg shells. Glad your house will soon be on the market. You think estrangement is stressful you are in for one hell of a ride. Never believe someone is a cash buyer unless your solicitor sees a bank statement with the whole amount there. You need to have a thick skin. And don't forget you make the rules when it comes to viewing. I had simple ones no shoes past my porch ,only 2 adults no teenagers and now I would add viewers to wear masks. I didn't allow people to open my cupboards. Only answer any questions don't volunteer information. For me once I decided to sell I mentally detached myself from my home. To be honest it had become a mill stone round my neck. I rattled round it. Hope the decluttering is going well and I would start packing things you don't need day to day that you want to keep. And be prepared as buying and selling takes longer than you think. But it's all worth the stress,tears and sleepless nights to move into your new home. I live my life to the full no longer exist. Ok my move lost me my son and grandson's his choice. But gained a lot. So I have no regrets moving.

Yogin I feel healthier than I have done for years. I suppose knowing what my conditions are has given me peace of mind. My daughter says she doesn't have to worry now everytime her phoned rings that I need an emergency trip to the hospital. I have found support on a closed Facebook group for HPX . At least babies can be diagnosed from birth. What my poor parents must have gone through with me and to be told it was growing pains . Thank goodness for genetic testing. At least at 64 no long winded explaining of what's wrong with me I have a name for it. Funny without my moving I still wouldn't have know about the HPX and PAF. Have been reading your posts on house and home thread. Hope things are settling down for you after you ups and downs.

Well better get into the shower . Everyone else hope you are all doing ok . Don't forget it's bank holiday Thursday and Friday . ?

Walking on egg shells, tip toeing around and being afraid to open your mouth is no way to live. I admire those who can do so, posters here like DerbyshireLass who live with the cloud of possible estrangement hanging over them day in and day out, to maintain that contact with their AC and GC.

Everything you have said Toetoe will resonate with everyone who posts here. Everything you and your sister have and continue to feel, we have felt too. This is a group that no one ever wants to join but thank goodness it is here.

There's always a mixture of emotion when someone posts here for the first time. We're pleased that you've found us but so very sorry that you needed too.

A long bank holiday weekend ahead Whiff but they're not quite the same when you're retired are they. Still, looking forward to the coverage as we celebrate our wonderful Queen's historical reign.

Whiff meant to say glad you are feeling well and receiving such excellent care.

As for the move. I am raring to go. ?. I am ready for new pastures, and fresh challenges. I feel I have become stale and yes this house feels like a millstone round my neck. I can resonate with all you have said.

As for the actual "moving experience". It holds no terrors. I have been an estate agent. I have worked in construction selling new builds And I also worked selling overseas property.

I have also moved house on my own. Several times. Yes it can be trying but after years "in the business" I am quite philosophical and take the view that it all comes right in the end.

I understand that your process was problematical and that you lost a buyer at some point. Very disappointing and stressful but you got there in the end, you sound so happy in your new home and new life.

Toetoe.

Sending you hugs and ?. Stick with it honey. Grief is like a series of tsunamis but over time the waves get smaller and less frequent. We ride them out.

You mention narcissism. I'm glad you have realised what lies behind your daughters behaviour. And no it's not your fault. You didn't turn your daughter into a narcissist and your sister didn't create a narcissist either. It's not your fault, nor your sisters. . It's a mental health issue and a deep seated personality disorder for which there is no cure.

The only way to deal with a narcissist is not to, ie just leave them to it. However, it's not always that simple. When the narcissist is a family member or someone who marries into the family we have to find a way of living with them as harmoniously as we can.

My father was a narcissist and now my DIL. I have developed a system I call "the red rope policy". Only a favoured few are allowed into my inner circle.

My father is now dead and I keep my DIL at arms length. I keep my thoughts and feelings to myself and I ignore her antics and any attempts to involve me in her dramas. I concentrate my energies on the people who love and cherish me.

I actually feel sorry for my DIL as I did for my father. Narcissists can't help themselves, they have no self awareness and they are invariably deeply unhappy and insecure people.

They create havoc and destroy everything good in their lives. They sow the seeds of their own nemesis and karma always get a them in the end.

I think we all have times when we feel like throwing in the towel. Days when everything looks so bleak that we feel we can't take anymore. But we get through them.

I too am a widow. I miss my husband more than I can say but I made a vow to live for him as well as for myself. I also made a promise that I would look after our boys. I have kept my vow and my promise. I wont give up.

My house move will be the start of a new and better life. It's time......

Stay with us ToeToe. Right now you are in a dark place but remember. "This too will pass".

Smiles. Now that I'm retired every day is a holiday ??

I enjoyed my work but I enjoy retirement more. Lol

Found you at last ???
Been advised to come here by “Whiff”
Hope everyone are safe and well! ❤️

Toetoe. That should read "red velvet rope". Just like the ones used cordon to off VIP areas. It's a sort of metaphor.

I simply avoid "vexatious people", they are not allowed into my life any more.

When I simply cannot avoid them (like my late father and my DIL) I try to minimise contact. When I have to spend time with them I keep things light, bright and breezy, avoiding any potentially difficult conversations.

I also make a point of not giving my DIL any information which could be used against me. So I do not divulge any personal information, or share my plans or dreams.

Narcissists will store up anything, any snippet of knowledge or information and will weaponise it and turn it on you.

Yep. I learned the hard way. ?.

Now I neatly sidestep any questions I don't want to answer and never reveal my true feelings. I know she "probes" me for anything she can store up and use later but that well is now dry.

The other thing I do is I ensure my DIL is never alone with me. That way she cannot simply bake things up or accuse me in any way. I always ensure I have a witness.

It sounds calculating I know but it's the best I can come up with so that I can at least maintain a relationship with my son and build one with my grandchildren

I'm glad you've found us Toby, well done to Whiff for encouraging you to join us.

I don't usually post on a Sunday morning because I'm always rushing around before we go out, but because I did today, this thread and all of you were in my thoughts so when I sang this verse, it made me think of you all.

I will weep when you are weeping
When you laugh I'll laugh with you
I will share your joy and sorrow
Till we've seen this journey through.

This is what we do for one another, it's why I've been posting here for 9 years and will continue to do so. for you all, old friends and new.

Toby glad you found us. As many here have found estrangement has been a taboo subject far to long. Some of us are facing it by ourselves which is hard but it's just as hard for couples. I think men feel it more deeply but because they are men they think they have to be strong and that they should be able to make everything alright. And hate it when they can't. Women find it easier to talk about problems. I know my husband thought he had to be the strong one but the truth was I was stronger but I let him think he was. My dad,husband and brother where cut from the same cloth. Tough exteriors but marshmallows inside.

Anyway think I have monopolised the thread enough today?

Yes, Derbyshirelass is so right. " Narcissists will store up anything......and will weaponise it and turn it on you". Exactly correct in my case. During my quick estrangement from my son comments l had made to him and my daughter in law years before were dragged out and completely misconstrued. The sort of everyday remarks people make when having a conversation and usually then forget all about.
Why didn't she say something when l made those remarks, we had seemed to be friends then, with a good relationship. It was all smiles and pleasantries then.
Hello Toby and Toetoe.

They have memories like elephants. But as you say their recollections are twisted and skewed.

I have been so lazy today. Well it is Sunday. Lol

'Recollections may vary' no kidding!!!!

Toetoe - when I first found this thread I really felt like I couldn't survive the pain of estrangement. I felt utterly worthless and isolated. The friends on here got me through the most awful time. I'm still estranged from my son, not by my choice, and it still hurts like billy-ho, but I have much in my life to be grateful for and find joy in many small things. Please hand on in there. You're not alone.

Good luck with the housemoving Dsl - still slow going here. We've had a couple of people view ours but no offers yet and we haven't seen the right property for us yet. I'm also trying to be philosophical - it will work out one way or another in time.

Welcome Toby

Oh my, those recollections... Well said DSL and Smiles

A very tired day today, but I've done some reading and resting.

Smiles the verse is lovely. Bet you belted it out.

Just come on to have a moan about Trainline. I have the app on my phone which I use to book tickets. As I want to have a few day trips out this year decided to get an over 60's Railcard which you can order via the app and it stays on your phone. Thought it would be simple. But no you need a passport or driver's license or national identity card number. Without one of those you can't do it via the app.

I sent them an email pointing out I didn't have a passport or driving license. And since when have we had national identity cards in this country. Last time was the 2nd world war for a while. Why on earth would we need a national identity card when you are born in this country. I know other countries do have them . We don't.

It was bad enough until my HPX was diagnosed that I couldn't claim any benefits or money off things that where open to the disabled. Not my description of me as I have never called myself that but according to doctors I am. But because I didn't have a label as far as the government etc I didn't exist.

This is the first time I have come across any company that has been so narrow on there choice of identity. So now I have to phone them today. Moan over.

Going to see a friend today been a while since we caught up in person. She is waiting to have a knee replacement ..

Hope the photo will make you smile. These are my sister in law's latest creation's.

Hope you get your tickets sorted Whiff, it sounds very difficult getting over 60’s card on line, but at least you tried. Have a good day out. I love those knitted frog and pigeon, very clever.

DSL, I would try to do what you do but I am hopeless at tip toeing round people, I would inadvertently say the wrong thing.as I cannot stand undercurrents, like things sorted, which I know you can’t in your situation. I wish I could though. My husband used to say, you can see what you’re thinking, you’d make a terrible poker player.
Wise words Hugshelp and good luck with the house hunting, I’ve to do it and need a great big push.

Allsorts glad you like them. They are crochet. Like me my sister in law can't coordinate kitting needles her MS wouldn't let her.

Decide what you want out of life. When I had a think in 2017 only wanted 3 things move house,lose weight and get fit.

I know you want to move but think you may have to move further afield to get all you want from your new home . And be able to get all amenities you need close by. The areas I looked at offered me all the things I wanted. It's frightening moving especially if you have lived in your home and area for a long time. But I promise you it will be all worth it. You just have to set your mind to do it. What you your husband tell you to do ? Bet he would say like I imagined mine saying what took you so long.

Having a good declutter is a good start as it no only decluttered your home but your mind. I let go of a lot of things I had no idea why I held on to them. Plus at lot of things I could no longer physically use.

It's hard making all the decisions especially if you haven't got family back up. But you are a strong woman stronger than you realise. Once your home is valued you will know what you are willing to spend to buy your new home. Get a map and mark where you live and draw a circle the distance you are willing to go too from your home . Needs to be say 10-15 miles and see what places are within that circle. At least it will give you an idea of areas. Then start a process of elimination. Might help looking on Rightmove to give you an idea of prices within those areas before eliminating them.

Hope that helps?

Yes, the pic made me smile Whiff; so cute and you're right, I belted it out. Hope you get your tickets sorted out.

DS says that to me Allsorts; 'you don't have to say what you;re thinking mum, as it's always written all over your face'. I think if I ever attempted walking on eggshells or tiptoeing around, it would be akin to doing so in hobnail boots!!

Very positive that you've had a couple of viewings hugshelp, shows that you've pitched the price just right. The right property is out there for you somewhere, as is the buyer for yours. It will take time but you'll get there in the end.

Love the crochet animals whiff.

the line about tiptoeing in hobnail boots is very funny smiles

Had a writing day today which just flew by and watched BGT.

I'd like to ask your thoughts on this if I may .

I have briefly told about my situation , son and daughter not spoken for 5 years both vitriolic about each other , daughter narc and blocked my sister from contact , so basically no one speaks to each other or likes each other ( pathetic isn't it )

I had made written plans for my funeral but I now don't want one , I am going to pay for a pure cremation so no one has to organise a funeral or all sit apart ignoring each other . I will just be taken on day of death and my body sorted and it will be all over .
The other thing I'm seriously thinking about it changing my will , my old will left my house to my son and daughter split 50 50 . Because of all this awful bad mouthing between them I don't feel they deserve it and especially with daughters bad attitude towards me and estrangement issues etc etc I am going to leave it to my 2 granddaughters to be sold and money put into savings till 21 .

Because son and daughter are expecting to get the house they will be in for a blooming big shock but I don't want to give it to them now . They have not cared a jot about how I have been affected by their selfishness so do they deserve a big lump sum of cash , ?

I am honestly trying not to feel bitter towards them both and I'm sorry if I am and it might be affecting my common sense . I've been thinking now for about 3 months and still not actively been to the solicitor .

Your thoughts please . I'm still feeling sensitive but I guess I've got to live with it

Thankyou once again

A friend of mine has done just this. But in her case the estrangement has been going on for a number of years. She said she feels better now that she's done it.

It's your estate, you are legally entitled to dispose of it as you wish. Be sure to take good legal advice and make sure your will is watertight. Use a really good solicitor not just some generic will writing company. At the same time think about power of attorney in case you become incapacitated.

Basically I think that you now should do what alleviates your stress, gives you peace of mind and makes you happy.

Time to put yourself and your needs first.

Toetoe after my son sent back all their birthday cards ,gifts ,gifts for my new grandson crushed up and his vile letter saying he didn't want my vindictive and manipulative behaviour anywhere never him or his family ever again zero contact. So that was it . When our children where young bad behaviour had consequences . Bad behaviour in adult children is beyond the pale. So after thinking long and hard decided to change my will and make my daughter sole beneficiary in the event she dies before me her sons will inherit. My husband and I always believed children inherit from their parents not grandparents. I also at the same time took out lasting powers of attorney both financial and health my daughter and son in law are my attorneys . Cost wise it was cheaper to do it all together.

I didn't know but after your death anyone can contest your will up to 2 years after your death. Because I have a neurological condition I had to get a letter from my GP stating my illness was physical and not mental and I was in sound mind. That cost £40. Also because of being estranged so my son can't contest my will I had to write a letter explaining my reasons for cutting him out . Also my solicitor wanted me to write about what our relationship was like before with him and had to write about my husband's death and what I had done since. That was a weekend I never want back again . I wrote 13 pages of A4 paper. My solicitor cried when she read it . Both letters will never see the light if day unless my will is contested and they will be read out in court.

But my daughter and other family members have been told not to tell him when I die. I don't expect him to ever get in touch again. But if he does I won't tell him he is disinherited as it's nothing to do with him what I do.

I was going to pay for a cremation only . Told my daughter but she said no she wants a funeral . So I said I would pre pay for one. Again she said no as it's her responsibility to deal with it after I die.

I didn't cut my son out as vengeance but bad behaviour does not get rewarded. I don't hate my son or daughter in law . Don't want it or need hate in my life. Had enough of that from 1975 until 2015 when my mother in law died. But I will never forgive either my son or daughter in law and will never trust my son ever again.

You must do what you feel is right for you. But use a solicitor . It is expensive but at least it's done properly . And they will make sure your wishes are carried out.

We did this a few years ago Toetoe. After much soul searching, we disinherited our youngest son who we've been estranged from for 9.5 years.

As DSL has said, make sure you see a good solicitor. Our will states that our son does not inherit because he was amply provided for during our life time and because we are estranged.

We did consider a bequest for our only GC, his children but as we have never known them, everything will be left to our DS. It's been said by some that parents who disinherit the AC who've estranged them do so as a final punishment, and leave them with a legacy of believing they're not loved.

For us, an inheritance is a gift not a right and we don't consider it appropriate to leave a gift to someone who wants nothing to do with us. EAC here on GN have said that they wouldn't want to inherit from their parents and for me that makes sense.

There's no right of wrong IMO, only what is the best decision for you so as DSL has said, do what alleviates your stress, gives you peace of mind and makes you happy. That will be the inheritance you give to yourself .

Hi all, sorry not been around for a little while but I have been so down about it all but I had to pick myself back up. DH keeps busy in his man cave. I met up with a couple of friends last week and I felt like the old me was back out there. Scratch the surface and I am still there! It was lovely to laugh and be listened to once again by people who I haven’t seen in such a long time. People who have had troubles as well.

Toetoe I have had my will changed and as others have said, do get a good solicitor as it will make such a difference in the future. Not that I want to be around when it is read. Both my eldest 2 “children” will not be getting anything at all. It goes to my lovely youngest son and some to the grand children. Terrible though it sounds but I now do not miss my acid daughter one bit as it has been 7.5 years since I haven’t seen or spoken to her. I cannot forget the words my eldest son said to me on the phone back on 20th December 2021. He did send me cards for mothers/birthday with some cash and I did text straight back and thanked him. It was my 70th and he made no attempt to get in touch around then and I heard later (from a friend of theirs) that he and his children were at their holiday home at Devon. They have had that place over one year now and I haven’t seen it.

I agree that an inheritance is a gift and certainly not a right.

My daughters two girls, my lovely grand daughters have asked me on their last two visits what they are going to get when I die! I feel so sad about that. Also they ask whether I want to be cremated or buried?! Also makes me feel sad.

What have we all done to these people to deserve the way they treat us? I wish I knew. My mam was never treat like this and she will be doing cart wheels watching these two adult children. My youngest son is the opposite and he lives and works away and is so missed by me. None of my 3 children are my now husbands and therefore he doesn’t seem to realise just what turmoil I go through.

I have been busying myself lately by trying to finish off a duvet cover for the single bed. I thought I would make the grand children a one each for them to keep. Whether they do is up to them. Also I am going to put together a memory box for my youngest son when I have gone. Do you think that is a bit morbid? Sorry but that is how my head is.

Sending love and hugs to all of you. ?

You've done well to pick yourself back upPP it isn't easy when you're feeling down, to make the effort to'get back out there' so you've done well.

Nothing morbid about a memory box IMO especially for a such a loving child. I'm sure he'll appreciate being able to look through the memories that were so precious to you, you wanted to leave them with him for when you're no longer here.

Even people who do have children of their own, struggle to understand how terrible estrangement is and how it can feel impossible to live with when it hasn't happened to them.

Those of us on this thread know what it's like to walk in one another's shoes even if one of us is struggling to verbalise how we feel, the rest of us know .

Purplepixie a memory box for your much loved son isn't morbid. But something he will cherish. Do what makes you happy. That's all we can do when estranged is do what makes us happy. Because we have suffered enough at the hands of our children.

Before being estranged from my son both him and his sister said they didn't expect any money after I die and to spend it on myself. Also both told me if I ever needed money to ask. But I never would do that.

When I got upset over the energy price going up then realising it wasn't that what was upsetting but missing my husband. My daughter said to let her know if I needed money. But explained what had really upset me .

But I have decided on cutting some Christmas presents this year. I usually send my nephew and nieces a£20 voucher at Christmas don't send for their birthdays so told my brother I am stopping that. I won't buy for my best friend and her husband. To be honest it gets harder to know what to buy . Usually give my daughter's in law's a gift and their grandchildren as they are my daughter's niece and nephew and used to see them a lot when they where younger. Will only buy for my brother ,sister in law ,my daughter and family and something for a friend who doesn't have close family. Would hate for her not to have something to open Christmas day.

But everyone is in the same boat with energy prices set to rise again in October plus those who drive petrol prices are on the rise .

I usually start thinking about Christmas presents in August it's the planner in me ?.