Friendship,advice and support if estrangement has affected your life.

Toetoe. I see you have mentioned Pure Cremation. Before my husband died we had discussed what we wanted to happen with us. Most of his friends and relatives had died already or are ill and would not want to travel. We are quite old. After discussion with our daughter we decided on no funeral, she understood.
So l used Pure Cremation for him and it was fine. We have planted a tree in a nearby natural burial ground with his name and some family members came then. My estranged son doesn't know that.

Like others on here, l used a solicitor when doing my will. It costs more but l felt it necessary. Do it as you want it to be. I wrote a letter with it explaining why it is how it is, just in case it should be contested.

Here’s one of the things that keeps me sane. The single bed patchwork cover.

Thank you for all of your kind words.

Oh that's beautiful PP.

Pixie that is beautiful. ?

Thank you so much.

I just want to pop on to say that is beautiful purple pixie. I am a quilter at heart, though I do not have the time or room to complete one.

Just a quick visit tonight to wish you all well. May tomorrow bring a little sunshine into everyone's lives. Literally, if possible.

Morning all

Lovely quilt Pixie so sorry you had to hear those awful words from your DGDs, clearly coming from their mum, not them!

As the other estranged mums on here, I too have not included my estD in my will and have stated why. My GC from her have monies in bank accounts I opened for them.
Same as Smiles 9.5yrs since I last saw them.

Within the first year of estrangement, after the unsuccessful court case to see my beloved GC, I made my will, first time in my life, as I thought I wouldn't be alive much longer. I did bequeath quite a big percentage to them both, but changed that to a smaller gift amount when I made a new will years later.

Actually l have left a small amount to my ES. I might change that later on, but although he has upset and hurt me greatly, l feel sorry for him. I do feel he has been manipulated by his wife. I'm 3 years estranged.

Oops. Posted too soon....

I want to make a fresh start. Moving will hopefully help me do that.

Hope you are all ok. Enjoy the bank holiday. I've no idea whether I shall be seeing my son and DIL. Frankly I'm past caring. I shall be seeing my younger son and his partner. We will have a good time.

Oh dear. I must have lost a post.

Re wills. I'm biding my time. It's still early days, I do see my son but it's not easy. The relationship is not relaxed and I never know where I am. I often wonder if it's worth trying to keep it going. I feel like the price is too high. Not financially but it's a strain at times. I'm not good at riding emotional roller coasters. Hey ho.

Like you Hilltop I feel sorry for my son, he too is
Manipulated by his wife. So sad. He is a shadow of his former self. Tbh I can't bear to see him sometimes.

Anyway there's nothing I can do. He's an adult, he has to find his way out of the mire. So for now I'll let the will stand as it is.

However if things don't improve I will make some changes. I don't want to punish my son but I don't want DIL to benefit. I need to take legal device.

Perhaps some kind of family trust, allowing him access if They divorce,. He will need financial help then because she will take everything (including the kids). She will bleed him dry.

When l first did a Will after estrangement l left my ES a percentage. I later read that if you leave a set amount the beneficiary will get that amount, can see the will-- anyone can order them -- and that is that.
But if a percentage is left the beneficiary can ask to see all the details of the estate and that the percentage has been worked out correctly . I decided l didn't want to give Them the chance to cause any complications so had my Will changed.
Others may find that helpful.

When my daughter married her husband 18 years ago they had the children by ivf as unable to get pregnant naturally. When the first gd was born my daughter had what I can only say was a bad attitude to him , she expected him to do a lot and nagged him constantly ,he a weak man and a people pleaser yet a good man and kind , he was stopped seeing his parents because there had been issues and they didn't like her so after 14 ish months they were estranged. He did visit his parents maybe once a year but rarely stayed over . He went along with my daughters rules because he is weak . Then second gd was planned again ivf . Daughter ruled the roost and more was put onto husband , constant nagging and demands made of him and he was and told to do this and told to do that . He has a motorbike which he is not allowed to ride . I got frustrated at his weak ways. He was best friends with my son for a few years but when daughter rowed with her brother husband also walked away .

I am writing this scenario because I see some of you have lost sons and I can see the control and manipulation what the wife has over a weak people pleasing husband. He would say to me when sometimes I said estranging his parents was wrong " it's more than my life is worth if I go against her, believe me it's not worth it ". I would ask if he was a man or mouse he would reply squeek squeek with a smile .

I agree women should be strong and my daughter is strong only because she has total control and a very supportive kind man who earns a very good salary . She works hard too , but she has a bad attitude towards him . The girls now older have spoken disrespectfully to him and I do say not to speak to daddy like it because he is good and kind .

So you mums who have lost your sons may see a similar scenario in what I've written .

I've known a long time I'm not comfortable in my daughters company because of her dominance but put up with it because I love the girls .

All very wrong in my eyes

While my daughter in law may be behind my estrangement with my son. My son has never been a weak man . So I don't blame her. It was my son who wrote the email, my son who sent everything back and wrote that letter. I thought my daughter in law liked me may be even loved me . She has over the years shown me great kindness. After finding out about her Reddit posts about me realised she was a dam good actress. And that she in fact hated me. Why I will never know. I have always treated her as a member of the family. I treat people the way I want to be treated. If someone is nasty to me I can be nasty back.

Seems she was happy when I lived over 3 hours away not now 40 mins.

Since the estrangement I have realised they never trusted me with my grandson's the 2 of their 3 I know. Where as my daughter and son in law trusted me completely with their 2 boys. Even when I was still having the limb jerks and seizures. They have only stopped the last 2 years thanks to a tablet.

Think my son forgets I was having them while we brought our children up. As they got really bad and our life completely altered when I was 29 our daughter was 4 and he was 6 months. But neither child suffered through having a mom who had health problems. I have never considered myself disabled but according to doctors I am. Why I don't is because I have met so many people worse than myself. Now I finally know what is wrong with me and it's hereditary and finding out more about it I realised what my parents went through with me and how frightened they must have been . As I have seen videos of what happens to babies with HPX . They made me cry. Any way going off track as usual.

With my grandson's by my son and daughter in law I was never left alone with them, never changed a nappy , pushed the buggy etc. Yet with my daughter and son in laws boys I have done and do everything. Yesterday my grandson had an accident at nursery which meant a trip to the hospital. So quick phone call from my daughter to see if I was back home from my exercise class. I had my youngest grandson for near enough 4.5 hours. He's 18 months old. They got triaged quickly at the hospital but because of lot of ambulances coming in with emergency's and children who needed more attention. My grandson finally had his chin glued and it was about 7.30 when they came to pick his brother up.

My daughter had phoned to ask me to give my grandson some dinner at 6 . I already had some vegetarian lasagna I had made in the fridge to reheat but as I am now mainly veggie always have vegetarian foods in so could have soon whipped something up with Quorn and vegetables. Always have plain yogurt and fruit in. So he was easy to feed. Messy as he likes to fed himself but have a metre of PVC cloth I put on the carpet under the chair with the highchair seat on. My son in law has been abroad for a week working back late tonight.

It brings home to me the difference between how they view me. Complete trust and confidence and how much I am loved by my daughter and son in law. And no trust and confidence or love from my son and daughter in law.

It's horrible realising my son ever thought I would cause or let any harm come to my much loved grandson's.

My mom was right the love for grandchildren is different from the love for your own children. While bringing up your children you didn't worry about every little fall or knock and took things in your stride. Yes worried yourself sick about them but think it was because they where yours . But with my grandson's it's different every fall or knock I worry if they are ok it's because they I am nannie not mommy.

Even though my in laws where horrible we never keep the children away from them and trusted them with them . My father in law adored the children. Unfortunately he died when our daughter was 4 and son 8 months old. But even though my mother in law was all our son we still trusted her to keep both of them safe and she did. Because my husband would never give up on his parents neither did I . I even looked after his mom who I hated for 11 years after he died until her death. Even protecting her from hospital tests she had had done and because they hurt her made sure they where never done again as she asked me to. I even fought with the backing of the nurses not to let the doctor move her to a home when she was dieing from her hospital bed. It was me who sat with her for 15 hours the last 2 days of her life. Not her family they only appeared once she was dead. I did that for someone I hated because I love my husband so much. Also I couldn't let her be there on her own . I am and never been cruel.

Thats why I can never forgive my son and daughter in law or ever trust him again . They both knew my mother in law so they know full well what a horrible mother,mother in law and grandmother is.

Moving gave me a new life which I live to the full. Without me moving I still wouldn't have know what I was born with as the health care here is far better than what I was used to. Yes I lost my son and grandson's but that was his choice not mine. Ironic really as for years both my children wanted me to live closer to them. I often wonder if Covid just gave him the excuse to get rid of me . I haven't closed the door in him . But now he knows about the HPX . I will never contact him again. But had to let him know so he can get tested if he decides to. Hopefully he see sense and will .

As usual rambled on. Well that's me in real life . Take care everyone and enjoy anything you have special for the Jubliee. ?

Whiff, Cannot understand your son and dil. Your d and family just the opposite. What a day for you yesterday but it’s all worked out.,I thought it would be stitches he had, not glue, it unbelievable how things have changed. Daresaybhe and his brothers slept well last night, I bet their dad is thinking, it would happen when I’m away.

Allsorts we all slept well last night. They use glue on children's and older people's skin because it's thinner and stitches may tear the skin. I learn something new everyday. But it makes sense . My mom's skin was paper thin.

It's always the way . Something always happened when my husband was away and couldn't get back. Sods law.

Hope you have the sunshine today. ?

It was a similar conversation that Mr. S. instigated that led to us changing our wills DSL. He came in one day and said how he couldn't stand the thought of our ES's wife benefiting from our estate.

We did consider having something in our wills that would enable our ES to inherit if they were no longer legally married but TBH that didn't sit right with me as it's our son who us ultimately responsible for our estrangement and I've never thought it appropriate under the circumstances, for him to be a beneficiary.

That's a good point Hilltop but once probate is completed, wills become a public document so anyone can get a copy on request.

It's definitely our ES's wife's control and manipulation together with our son's weakness that's brought us to this Toetoe and it did help me to accept what's happened by acknowledging that. It's easier to put all the blame on our AC's partners isn't it, but there came a time when I had to be realistic and acknowledge his role in it too.

It's so hard isn't it Whiff to feel that you're not trusted with your own GC and in our case, to know that the preferred option for all the childcare was someone who was being paid to do it, a child minder, rather than GP who would have helped out of love.

Really enjoyed the 'Trooping of the Colour' this morning, and then sitting out on our roof terrace enjoying the . Mr. S. in on with our BBQ; something else to look forward too.

I’m afraid these people being manipulated by their partners to the extent they alienate their whole families, have to take some responsibility for going along with it, they do have minds of their own, know right from wrong. They do have choices.
I can’t see the point of leaving your estate to a grown up child who has treated you badly, just leave it to grandchildren or charity. It probably sounds hard but not a bit as hard as being dumped.
Love all the celebrations but just how to those grenadiers see with those hats over their eyes? There’s one with it almost on the end if his nose.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

When my mother in law died I found out via my children she had altered her will. And instead of the original will leaving everything equally between the children and 5 small bequests and my daughter and me as executors she had it changed so that it was split into 3 . My children got a third each and her brother a third. She left me £2,000 why I don't know. And her brother was executor.
But I was always listed as her next of kin when it came to medical matters as she knew I would always be there for her.

When we we went to see her when we went to tell her my husband be was terminal. She promised him 2 things. Neither of which she kept . One was to give me a allowance of £200 a month for the children and the other to leave the bulk of her estate equally between the children. She did neither. I never asked her for money . But she promised her dieing son and it shows plainly how she felt about him she didn't keep either promise. After he died she denied she had a son or grandchildren. It wasn't grief but wickedness it's the only way I can describe her actions.

Both our children kept in touch with their nan and saw her. She refused to either of their weddings. What sort of grandmother wouldn't want to see her grandchildren married. Wild horses wouldn't have kept my mom away. She had a whale of a time at both weddings.

At her funeral which was Catholic there was a photo on her coffin which had been taken at her nephews wedding. He got married years after my children. Shows exactly how she felt about her own grandchildren.

What the priest and her brother said about her was a pack of lies. In fact I expected the coffin to burst into flames . But being Catholic a faith she denied until she was 85 when she decided she wanted to be one again. If she confessed all the vile horrible things she said and did she would have been forgiven. She hadn't got any form of dementia and was still as sharp up until the last 2 days of her life when she was unconscious.

I suppose that why what my son has done hurts so much as he knows what she was like and how she treated her own son , daughter in law and grandchildren. Plus she was vile to my family. My father in law only loved the children. But the rest of us he treated as his wife did. In fact he was worse.

I always said to my husband if he told me he was adopted I would have believed him. As apart from the big nose there was nothing of them in him. Don't get me wrong he wasn't a saint as like me had a temper and was stubborn . In fact both the children are the same. When the 4 of us were together I thought the house should have been called Bedlam. But we always knew we loved eachother and protected eachother.

Why my son has done what he has I will never understand but he choose to do it. Hope it's made him happy. But as with most estrangements it's the grandchildren who suffer. Mine are growing up not knowing they have other family and a nannie who loves them very much. As far as they know they have one nannie and an aunt and uncle who live in Australia and that's it.

But as with all children they will get older and ask questions. If they want to find me they will. It will be up to them. My son and daughter in law must think they are perfect and they will be able to control their children forever they are in for a rude awakening . Only time will tell.

Glad the weather was nice for trooping of the colour yesterday. But think there should have been a seat for the Queen. But she did look lovely and happy. But she must have felt her husband should have been by her side. As without him I don't think she could have coped with all her years on the throne.

Even the Queen is effected by estrangement and yet it's still a hidden problem.

I feel the same Allsorts and have said many times over the years that it would have been something, if our ES had said for example that he couldn't see us anymore for the sake of his marriage and family, as hard as that would have been, at least it would have been honest and far better than telling lies to try and excuse the inescusable.

Sorry Hilltop I hadn't realised that was something someone could do so I can see why you've avoided that being a possibility. Estrangement makes thinking about what to do in terms of our wills so complex doesn't it.

As you say Whiff even the Queen is effected by estrangement and yet it's still a hidden problem. Thank goodness our pain and the disloyalty of a much loved member of the family hasn't been played out on the world stage.

Such a shame that she wont be attending the service of thanksgiving. I thought PC, PW and PA looked fantastic yesterday. It must have been very poignant for PC, standing in for the Queen and to see the enormous crowds lining the Mall was a spectacular sight and must have been very moving.

The quilt is gorgeous purplepixie.

I don't know much about pure cremation, but thanks for the heads up. I've sent for a free guide. Hilltop

Even the Queen is affected and yet it's still a hidden problem. I never thought of that Whiff. What a thought.

I thought the same about the Queen having a seat Smiles, she looked lovely and was enjoying her special day. I watched it all on TV, with my family & lovely scones with cream that my daughter bought round. Lovely sunny dry day for the celebrations yesterday, unlike today where it looks about to storm!