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Estrangement

Friendship,advice and support if estrangement has affected your life.

(1001 Posts)
Whiff Sat 29-Jan-22 04:32:33

This thread is for parents and grandparents who have been estranged by their children and / or grandchildren. Parents and grandparents that looks like they will be estranged by their children and / or grandchildren. Also parents and grandparents that have reconciled with their children and/or grandchildren.

But anyone who has any insight into estrangement that can offer friendship,advice, support and understanding are welcome.

DerbyshireLass Tue 07-Jun-22 14:31:42

Pixie.....your son is spot on.....it's time for you and me both to put all the pain and sorrow behind us,

Love the sound of the twinset. Very Grace Kelly. I think that demure style of dressing is coming back into fashion. I love it, I think it's a great look. And it would be wonderful if you could pass on your skills to some youngsters.

Like your son I'm going to find a class to brush up my language skills. He's a wise and clever young man by the sound of it,

Whiff.....yes living for 2. That's exactly what I intend to do. Our husbands died far too young, so we need to live for them as well as for ourselves.

Anyway my viewer is due shortly. Wish me luck. I really want to get this all wrapped up so I can start my new life.

Purplepixie Tue 07-Jun-22 15:51:11

Yes, my son give out wise words for a lad of 30 years old. To think that my eldest son is 48 in a couple of weeks and my daughter 46 the week after his birthday. They both could learn a lot from him but alas they have never got on with him. Jealous from the day he was born and they have a different dad from him.

Good luck with the viewing Derbyshirelass

Purplepixie Tue 07-Jun-22 16:03:04

When my eldest son got married back in 2004 he informed me 3 weeks before the wedding that his dad and his new bride were invited. My daughter had fallen out with her dad back in 2002 and she wasn’t chuffed either. To think that I had to put up with my wife beating ex for an entire day and night gave me the shudder. Words were exchanged and my future DIL went nuts and blamed me and my daughter for trying to spoil her day. I pointed out that I wasn’t comfortable with him being there but I would be on my best behaviour! Then he announced that the ex’s brother and his wife were invited as well. My daughter and I didnt speak to my son until a few days before the wedding which made it hard for my daughter because she was Matron of Honour. He came to our house and the three of us had a massive row and all ended up crying. We got through the day and the night time do. I have to say that I chose the right outfit, had my hair and makeup professionally done that morning and I felt wonderful. He did stare a few times but didn’t speak and I made no attempt to speak to him but it really boosted my confidence. Go out there with your head held high and stun them - words my dad said when I was younger after falling out with a lad. It worked for me that day and it is good advice to anyone.

The ex married a girl that he had bought off the internet from Russia. I didnt believe it at the time but so many people have told me the same because the ex had to brag about it. I actually feel sorry for her because I know she came from a poor family and had to send money home. Not sure what the situation is now. It could be a bit tricky with her being Russian and the war with the Ukraine.

I’ve typed it to put people’s minds at ease - if I can do this family gathering/wedding thing then anyone can.

Take care.

Allsorts Tue 07-Jun-22 17:12:27

Purplepixie, It sounds as if the two eldest that have estranged you take after their father. If the man that beat you is whom they choose to be with you’ve had a lucky escape. If they were to reconnect with you it wouldn’t work out I don’t think. When people treat you bad it says more about them. You have a caring adult child that doesn’t share half siblings ruthlessness.

hugshelp Tue 07-Jun-22 21:44:52

Good luck with the viewer DSL. We have one who is keen but they haven't sold theirs yet. Not much happening here yet.

Go out there with your head held high and stun them - words my dad said when I was younger after falling out with a lad. It worked for me that day and it is good advice to anyone. I like that PP and I'm glad it worked for you.

When people treat you bad it says more about them too true allsorts.

Allsorts Wed 08-Jun-22 06:23:59

What iscso sad us how being estranged can damage your self esteem, looking good and taking care of yourself boosts you up no end. So best foot forward.

DerbyshireLass Wed 08-Jun-22 07:01:43

Yes, I've lost a lot of my confidence. But it's the anxiety that really gets me. I never used to feel anxious before. Every morning, it takes me a while to calm down again,

My stomach is churning as I write. Oh well just need to get through the next few days. I will be so glad when Sunday is over.

And then, selfish as it sounds, I'm just going to concentrate on me, my needs and do everything I can to get well and healthy again. And that includes my mental well being, so if it means calling time on everything then so be it.

I listen to Mel Robbins from time to time. She has a talk called "No one is coming". So true. There's only me, no one is going to rescue me I have to rescue myself. No one to take care of me so I have to take care of myself.

Anyway......I have two viewings today, plus a friend is coming over for coffee. Something nice to look forward to,

Hugshelp.....good you've got someone interested. It's just a waiting game now isn't it. We've done all we can to get our houses market ready and looking their best. It's just a question of time now. Stay hopeful.

Whiff Wed 08-Jun-22 09:36:27

DerbyshireLass it's not selfish to concentrate on yourself. Took me a long time to realise that. Having jaundice was my wake up call. Don't recommend it. But we all need a wake up call. Time to think and decide what we want for the rest of our lives. All the things I could want mine was only 3 things. Lose weight,move and get fit.

Everyone will have different things. It's hard to put yourself first especially if you have always put everyone else's needs and wants first. But we own it to ourselves to do just that.

Whether you are on your own or a couple it's time to change. We can't do anything about our adult children they have made their choice and that doesn't include us. But we can't let it rule or ruin the rest of our life. I am 64 now I have more confidence now than I did at 50. I live a full life since moving. My health is iffy at times but since my move finally know what is wrong with me. I have HPX and PAF. Knowing that means I am having all the correct treatment . And just having the label of Hereditary Hyperekplexia has altered my world. The person I need to tell I can't my husband as he knew there was something wrong with me when we met but it didn't put him off . He loved me and was always there for me.

I know of couples that have broken up when one of them has become ill. One husband upon hearing she had breast cancer and needed a mastectomy said I didn't marry a one breasted woman.

I know that's an extreme example. But some of the reasons our adult children have given to dump us are just as bad and horrible.

Life is short we have to make it the best life we can . And if it's without our children and grandchildren then it is them who are missing out.

It's hard and a daily struggle but I can't let what my son and daughter in law have done spoil what life I have left. If I did then I am letting my husband down and all those who love me.

I realised when I had jaundice and time to think I have to love myself. I am not perfect I make mistakes but always apologise when I have . If my daughter has had a problem with me over anything before and since her dad died we talked it over. It used to be the same with my son. I had blinkers on and ignored things with him and my daughter in law I shouldn't have but you can't turn the clock back. But learn from your mistakes.

DerbyshireLass and Hugshelp moving is going to give you new starts embrace it and do all the things you want. Do new things and learn new things. I promise you it is freeing.

Smiles and Mr S moved and from what Smiles posts they are living life to the full. Yogin moved to . Having a few blips as she has mention on another thread. But sounds happy.

Not everyone can or wants to move house. But we can all make changes in our lives that don't include our estranged children.

Purplepixie I hope you are feeling better in yourself I know your husband is causing you concern. You have your younger son who loves you and cares about you. It's time to let go of your son and daughter. You are only making yourself unhappy and worrying your son. Not easy to do but how much hurt can you take.

Purplepixie Wed 08-Jun-22 11:57:52

Thank you for all of your wonderful replies. Yes, I do need to start taking care of myself and getting back out there. My youngest son is so precious and I have to stop worrying so much for his sake. One of my very best friends is phoning this afternoon for a chat and I am so looking forward to it.

Take care everyone.

Allsorts Wed 08-Jun-22 16:26:46

It’s comforting knowing others in the same position, wouldn’t wish it on anyone but we can’t change it.
Been picking at food all day and now realised I have no dinner planned. Serves me right.

DerbyshireLass Wed 08-Jun-22 17:13:06

There is a comfort in knowing I'm not alone, that I am not losing my marbles, because for the life of me I can't see what I've done to deserve.

But having read this thread, having heard all the.stories, having done lots of reading and research I understand clearly now. It's nothing I have done or not done, it just is and it's not going to change.

The only thing I have any control over is how I respond, how much I'm prepared to take before I call time.

Good news......first offer received. (Over my asking my price?) but still have several viewings booked so will honour those.

It's looking good. ??

Purplepixie Wed 08-Jun-22 17:54:35

Good news DerbyshireLass! I hope all goes well.

No, we are not alone. Sometimes in the middle of the night when I cannot sleep then I think about all sorts of things. I imagine that everyone gets on really well with every member of their families and it just isnt the case.

Take care and lots of love x

hugshelp Wed 08-Jun-22 22:21:55

Great news Dsl - hope it all goes well.

Roobs Thu 09-Jun-22 03:46:05

I came here to feel better about our situation and all I can say is thank you so much ladies.
We are like you Derbyshire lass, not complete estrangement but thrown the odd crumb here and there.

I agree with not letting the DIL getting under your skin I manage by thinking that every time I react it pleases her. Lesson: no to react to her negativity and kill her with kindness. Tis not easy but I am learning not to fall into her trap.
And it has taken me ages to realise my son is absolutely complicit in this which is a hard pill to swallow.
Thank you for letting me read right through this it has helped me so very much.

Whiff Thu 09-Jun-22 06:52:03

Roobs welcome to a club no of us wanted to join. Smiles started the original thread long before estrangement was talked about . I know without her and others I couldn't have coped with what's happened to me.

This is a safe place to write about how you feel. And to know you are not alone and anything you feel is normal .

You can write as much or little and know you are understood. As has had been said before estrangement is a living breavenment. Whether completely estranged or partly it's still the same. You give your children unconditional love and cherish them never thinking that they will turn on you. And when they do it's hard to bear. And time doesn't make it easier but you cope. I have wobbles when it gets to much. But I come here and write and it makes me feel better and know no one will think badly of me.

So use this place to write what you want. You are amongst friends.

Roobs Thu 09-Jun-22 07:26:13

Thank you
I have been here previously and poured my heart out and for whatever reason I felt misunderstood. So I went. I always popped back to read and things make a lot more sense to me how.
The worst thing I did was blame myself constantly for events. This is so not helpful.
I will without doubt and have done reflect and take responsibility for any part I played in this situation.
But I do maintain that it’s actually cruel to the children involved to estrange us unless there should be a safeguarding or equally dangerous reason.

Allsorts Thu 09-Jun-22 07:26:37

There is lots of what people have gone through tgatvstated I have too, especially how my husband was, in the dreadful time he suffered with cancer and subsequently died. It is for me still too painful to talk about , he was too young and was determined to live, I never heard him complain once, refused to acknowledge he was terminal as he would fight it, his only thoughts were for me coping with it all.
DSL I did what you do with Dil for years with my d, I can truthfully say for me it didn't work, , the more I kept quiet the stronger she became. She alienated everyone and I mean everyone. She is a different person that reflects her new chosen life, friends were and are her family. How I wish I had told her at the beginning how she treated people was wrong and given a piece of my mind, but I didn't. She could never reconnect with me, not possible, for that in her eyes would be admitting she was wrong. There is not one member of family she sees. I think that playing the game in order to see her for years weakened me, I was behaving like a victim and my self worth questioning almost every word said and action in order not to upset the apple cart and see my gc. In the end when she tired of cat and mouse her cutting off was swift and there was no way to communicate, I was blocked. I was the last one standing but eventually out. In your case it might jolt your son into action but when there are young children involved they seem to go along with their wives rather than risk leaving the family home.
I travelled to many places and met lovely people, I had many happy times but that sadness in my heart was there wherever I was, I prevaricate about moving home but can't summon the interest, if I moved to NZ
it would be the same, it would do me good, new things and places, I would shut the door eventually and it would be just me, that feeling inside. I feel as if I have no one. My son rings and would be there in an emergency, but thats as far as it goes.
I read how Whiff has made a new life and is so happy and she so deserves it, she is an important part of her d life with those lovely gc. I sound pretty negative and need to live for me. When I looked at Harry's face, he looks tortured, he has the attractive wife and his children, but both of them isolated from all family, by their actions and words, he is trapped and knows it, she knows he is and that he knows it, they are trapped.
Eventually a narcisstic person will run out of people that truly loved them but by then it's too late.
Sorry if I have droned on, I think Covid and isolation, seeing loving relatives faces pressed against nursing home windows and all the loss and selflessness has got to me, like millions. Have to snap out of it and live for me as my dh would have said.

Whiff Thu 09-Jun-22 10:27:38

Allsorts you never drone on. You like all of us are hurting. You tried so hard with your daughter . She must have a heart of stone.

As I have said before walk down any street and there will be at least one household going through estrangement . I live in a road of 40 bungalow . There is me and one of neighbours estranged from our sons. My window cleaner is estranged from his siblings. Since it happened to me I am amazed at the number of people I have met who are completely estranged or walking the tight rope not knowing if they will become fully estranged.

Estrangement is still a taboo subject. I think people assume it's the parents fault when we know from here and other parts of the support thread it's our children who decide to dispense with us. Son's or daughters are just as bad a giving us up. What gets me is how cruelly and cowardly they do it.

They play the victim when it us who are the victims . Allsorts you tried for years with your daughter no mother could do more. Our husbands died to young. You would think our estranged children would cherish the surviving parent.

In my blackness moments when my son first dumped me I wondered if he had wished I had died and not his dad.

Yes I am getting on with my life because I promise my husband. And the promises I made him mean more to me that what my son has done.

You need a new life and know the thought of moving is hard but I really think it is what you need. Only my close friends and family know what my son has done. Last year I told the people who I send Christmas cards to in the Midlands I wouldn't be sending to them again they aren't close friends mainly who I met with my husband . None of them know about the estrangement.

I have moved forward and it's what we all have to do. And it's hard . But we owe it to ourselves to do that. I miss my son and 3 grandson's so much but I will not let him hurt me again. Yes I am lucky I have my daughter and her family who care so much. And I love the fact she calls on me for help like last week . I can never repay how many times since I moved her she has had to take me to the walk in clinic , A&E or GP in an emergency. Luckily on the correct medication and she won't have to do that again any time soon hopefully not for years.

I suppose the hardest thing to bear for all of us is if our estranged child or children used to be caring and loving. My son was . But he hasn't just got rid of me but our side of the family. We haven't any ties with his dad's side since my mother in law died.

You say Allsorts about loving relative faces pressed against care home windows . But how many where really loving and caring and not doing it out of duty?

I have friends here who work in care homes. And the amount of people in the homes who have large families but no one ever phones or visits them it's shocking. Is it a case of out of sight out of mind!

I have said before our children think they are the perfect parents there is no such thing. We are all human not robots. We all make mistakes but I for one have never given up on anyone . It's not how I was brought up. I should have given up on my mother in law after my husband died but didn't as without her he wouldn't have been born and anyway she was my children nan.

Seems to some family is a dirty word.

hugshelp Thu 09-Jun-22 22:52:47

Good to meet you Roobs. While none of us would wish to be in this situation, meeting all the other lovely people who are doing the best they can after being treated this way is a huge comfort.

I wonder if people assume it's the parents' fault whiff because they can tell themselves it won't happen to them because they did a better job. Nobody wants to think it could happen to them. A bit like when people blame women for wearing the wrong clothes, or walking down the wrong street, or whatever if they get attacked. Because we are sensible, so it won't happen to us. Except it might, and if it doesn't we should thank our lucky stars.
I suppose the hardest thing to bear for all of us is if our estranged child or children used to be caring and loving. - this in spades. I don't even know the person my ES has become. Our DD who still has contact with him, says he doesn't know me and his father at all. He says things that she cannot relate to. It's like he reinvented himself and all his family history with it.

I'm so sorry you are so lonely Allsorts. Please take care of yourself the best you can. x

Smileless2012 Fri 10-Jun-22 10:11:19

Wow DSL an offer already and over the asking pricesmile. That's wonderful news and shows that all the time and effort you've put into getting the house ready for the market has paid off.

It's such an enormous relief to find somewhere to share with those who understand how awful estrangement and the fear of estrangement is. To have your feelings understood and to be validated. To be declared sane and not guilty or wanting as a parent.

I don't know if I, Mr. S. or any of us will ever have the confidence we used too, but as time goes by the confidence we've lost does gradually begin to grow again.

You need to be kind to yourself Allsortsflowers. Everything you did, everything you tolerated and everything you let go without comment was out of love for your D, and your desire to see her, have a relationship with her and be a part of your life.

You were her victim because she victimised you, took advantage of the love you have for her and perhaps, as I think our ES did, went too far and misunderstood what unconditional love really means.

It isn't a blank cheque, a 'get out of jail free' card, it means that despite what our ES or those AC who have the threat of estrangement hanging over their parents day in day out, as their parents we will always love them, because our love for them is unconditional.

It doesn't mean that we like them, that if one day the estranged ones want to come back we'll welcome them with open arms, or that for those living with the threat, the day may come when they, the parents decide enough is enough and walk away.

If moving is the right thing you'll know, so perhaps now just isn't the right time for you to be thinking about it. Don't see it as a weakness that this isn't something you can face at the moment. Your strength lies in knowing that now isn't the time, and waiting for when it is.

As Whiff, DSL and Yogin can attest too, the whole process of selling up and moving on is so much harder when you have to do it alone. It's a hard enough challenge when you have someone to share it with.

This will pass, but it will pass in it's own time Allsorts, you can't snap your way out of it, it doesn't work that way and in my experience, the harder you try too, the worse it gets.

I'm not suggesting you give in, but don't berate yourself either. Be proud of how far you've come flowers x.

A very warm welcome Roobs or perhaps that should be welcome back as you said you've posted here before. I'm sorry that you felt misunderstood but it's good to know that simply reading this thread has been helpful.

We learn from one another. DerbyshireLass has opened my eyes to the nightmare of living with the threat of estrangement. Constantly egg shell walking, second guessing what's really going on and always negotiating that emotional mine field.

Estrangement is horrible, but at least those of us who are estranged know what we have to deal with. I can only imagine how stressful it must be living with the threat. I know that that could have easily been our situation and can now thank God literally, that we were spared that and spared the pain of losing the GC we knew and loved, because we were never given the opportunity to do so.

Like you, knowing our son was and is totally complicit is the hardest and most upsetting thing of all flowers.

Parents invariably seem to be held responsible Whiff. There are of course parents whose abuse and/or neglect of their children results in them being estranged and understandably so. That said here on GN I often see the poster whose the mother, m.i.l. or GM being held responsible for the unacceptable behaviour of their AC, s.i.l/d.i.l. or he parent(s) of their GC.

Oh absolutely hugshelp and I've been saying so for years. If we've done nothing to deserve our estrangements and it can happen to us, it can happen to anyone can't it. But if it's our fault, then those who are so quick to judge and condemn are 'safe'.

DerbyshireLass Fri 10-Jun-22 14:36:32

Hello Roobs. Nice to "meet" you. Sorry to hear that you too are trying to fend off full blown estrangement. I keep on keeping on but I think I'm about ready to walk away. Totally against everything I stand for, but maybe there comes a time when you just have to face facts. Do stay with us you will get the support you need.

I too was disinclined to post for a while because I wasn't fully estranged. I didn't want anyone to be upset or feel it wasn't appropriate but I guess their are different levels of estrangement. I often think of myself as semi estranged, living in some strange limbo or no man's land.

Anyway I'll see how things go on Sunday at the "do". . Maybe me being the only member of our family there will shock them, give them the kick up the derrière they so badly need. Maybe not. I'll see how I'm treated. Actions speak louder than words and all that. But I feel my patience is being stretched to its limits.

Allsorts - don't berate yourself. I agree with Smiles you will know when the time is right. Moving house is like everything else in life. It's all about timing. My time has come. Yours will too, All in good time.

Yes parents do seem to take the brunt of the blame. Yes there are rotten Parents out there who deserve to be estranged but the sheer weight of numbers of adult children who "divorce" not just their parents but their friends and families would seem to suggest that there is something else underlying these relationship breakdowns. Estrangement is becoming so common. I am shocked at how many people I know in real life whose AC have just tossed whole families aside.

So I agree no room for any parent to feel smug or self righteous because it can happen to anyone.

And as sure as eggs is eggs it will happen to most of our EACs. How could it not, our EACs are teaching their children that love is transactional and that people are disposable.

Anyway I've now instructed the EA to accept the offer. ? it all goes through ok without any major hiccups.

Whiff Fri 10-Jun-22 16:32:55

Glad you are accepting the offer DerbyshireLass . Just hope every goes as you want. But as you well know until you exchange it's not a done deal. Anyway I am wish you all the best. Will be thinking about you on Sunday . At least you will know what to do.

Roobs Sat 11-Jun-22 06:39:04

Thank you for the welcomes.
Good luck at the 'do' DSL , go looking a million dollars and knock 'em all into a cocked hat.

Held head high, game face on you can do this

Allsorts Sat 11-Jun-22 07:11:12

You will be just fine on Sunday DSL, I vividly remember the last event I attended and my d was present. I did watch a couple of Mel Robbins, I have a thing about the American style delivery, it’s too brash for me, but her messages are spot on. We all basically have just us, no one can alter our mindset but us, everyone’s busy with their lives. We know what we have to do, we stop it by overthinking. Great news about
your house sale you obviously did a good job making it buyer friendly.
To Whiff, Hugshelp, Smileless and all of you, thank you, you have have to experience it to understand.
Have a great weekend, the sun will be out.

Smileless2012 Sat 11-Jun-22 09:29:09

Fingers crossed that everything goes smoothly now you've accepted an offer on your house DSL. Have you decided where you want to move too?

It gives you something to talk about tomorrow at the 'do' doesn't it, which you must be feeling anxious about but we'll all be there with you in spirit.

Who knows what remarks they'll be on the receiving end of. You being the only member of your son's family in attendance is going to look very odd and bound to raise some awkward questions. I doubt if there are, they'll be as good at handling them as you, and possibly the day as a whole, as you aresmile.

You make a good point about overthinking Allsorts, it's easily done isn't it. It's good to have a game plan, to try and anticipate what we may have to face so we'll be able to deal with it, but overthinking can increase our anxiety and stress levels.

A lovely morning here and we have friends coming this evening for a BBQ to celebrate her birthday. When we're at our lodge, we're closer to where we used to live so are able to see old friends smile.

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