Friendship,advice and support if estrangement has affected your life.

PetitFromage sorry you have lost your lovely mother in law so soon after your husband. In a way it will stir up memories for you the funeral in the same church, but if you are religious it may bring you comfort knowing they will be together again. I am glad she didn't suffer and went peacefully.

. I know in my mom's lucid times she wanted to be with my dad. The day she died I told her dad was waiting for her I like to think she hear .

You are right life is short. There are only 2 certainties in life we are born and we die. The rest we have to muggle through the best we can. Unfortunately our estranged loved ones seem to wish they could delete us from their lives. Unfortunately for them even though they don't want us we are still parents,in laws and grandparents even when we die that won't change. We exist they can pretend all they like we don't but we do.

Estrangement I have found changes you . I am not the mom my son knew like he isn't the man I thought he was. While estranged has deeply hurt me it hasn't destroyed me. While I grief for the relationship I had with him and my grandson's it pales in comparison to the grief I still feel for my husband. I have said before I lost half of myself the moment he took his last breath. I haven't been whole since. My present and future died with him . It's hard to make a new present and future . But all widows here have had to do the same . And it's a daily struggle but I owe it to my husband to live the best life I can and since moving I am a whole new me. I live not just exist.

Leaving my old life behind wasn't hard because I brought my memories with me. There are no places here that hold any memories of my husband. And the only people are my children that knew him.

We all have big wobbles but the main thing is we have eachother when we do. Finding all of you has enriched my life. I am not alone with my feelings and you don't mind my rambling on.

Smiles ,Allsorts and DerbyshireLass hope you feel a bit better today and each day you feel more yourself and in less pain. I have found if I have times when I am having a big wobble it effects my body. My neurologist says my brain and body are out of sync. He's right when I am having an off day my stability is worse and my brain is so busy coping with my emotions my body forgets what it is doing. Hence the number of broken crockery. Sounds odd I know but I can be holding a mug next thing I know it's smashed on the floor if the kitchen. I don't even realise I let go. But as I always try and find a positive from a negative haven't had a seizure in 2 years thanks to my neurologist and 2 tablets .

Purplepixie glad your teeth are fixed and heard from your grandchildren by your son and that your grandchildren by your daughter are coming to stay soon.

Yogin sorry your moving day took so long. But all the stress and worry are behind you and you can enjoy your new home.

To those wanting to move house grid your loins as you are in for one hell of a journey. Stress levels will go through the roof. But moving into your new home is worth it.

Well think I have rambled enough. Take care my friends ?

Good idea to explore different areas when you're thinking about moving hugshelp. We'd never considered moving here until we came for a day out and saw a property we really liked. It wasn't the one we ended up buying but it got the ball rolling.

As you say Whiff buying, selling and moving are very stressful but certainly worth it. I still remember the first morning we woke up here and I could hear the seagulls, the sound made me smile that morning, and every morning since.

Wonderful news about those text messages PP and that your GD's are coming at the end of the month, something to look forward too.

I really do feel as if the fog is beginning to clear and think that not dwelling on it and worrying about it, is helping. In the early days, week, months and TBH years of our estrangement, I would tell myself that this intensity of pain and loss would eventually lessen, not really believing that it would, but it has and is a less burdensome companion than it used to be.

So glad you got texts from the grandkids PP

Must admit I'm not looking forward to the actual process of moving. As you say whiff it can be very stressful, but I keep telling myself it should be just the once now.

Had a day of mostly resting and sleeping today, as I have to every so often when the fatigue hits, but I always tell myself that at least I have a warm comfy bed and couch. When I'm feeling a bit frustrated at not being able to crack on I often lie listening to the rain and wind and think of those who don't have a warm dry place to rest their heads.

Have a good night all.

Where have you decided to move to Hugshelp? I would think once you make tgst decision to move it’s quite exciting, new things and a new start.
I do what you do when the weather is awful and I’m in bed. How do these people manage living on the streets? We have a lot to be thankful for.

I was dreading the process of moving hugshelp but actually found that rather cathartic. As DSL has been saying, getting rid of clutter in your home helps get rid of some of the clutter in your mind, and you really do feel 'lighter'.

The one thing I couldn't face was packing everything so we got our removal company to do that for us. It was expensive but I'm glad we did; maybe that was what made it easier than I thought it would be.

I often wonder that Allsorts and as you say, we have a lot to be thankful for.

It's a lovely sunny morning here, the sea looks calm and blue and I'm so thankful that we made the move.

Choir practice went well last night despite some new music that I've never sung before. Practice makes perfect so I'll have to put some time aside this week and go through it. A couple of beautiful and moving pieces for a concert we'll be doing at Easter which made me feel really quite emotional.

As a grandmother who has been stopped from seeing my grandson with whom I had a close relationship for no good reason.I am asking if you can look at this and sign it if you agree. In France children have a right to see their grandparents and it’s in their interests to have the love of their wider family. Let’s get the topic discussed more openly:-
www.change.org/p/all-children-should-have-the-right-too-safe-and-loving-relationships-with-their-grandparents-over-2-4-million-children-are-denied-this-relationship-and-used-as-weapons-due-to-family-conflict-family-relationships?recruiter=105786440&utm_source=share_petition&utm_campaign=psf_combo_share_initial&utm_medium=whatsapp&utm_content=washarecopy_31748232_en-GB%3A7&recruited_by_id=bf640eb0-ec19-11e3-9f38-a7a4ba319ac7&fbclid=IwAR1JyS31ouBPgOEoIjBGVd9m3UY5W0OVsc-q7OjlaC3DOVcXcPHGS3UMzM8

Thank you and I hope reconciliation comes the way of anyone suffering like me .

Hazydays

As a grandmother who has been stopped from seeing my grandson with whom I had a close relationship for no good reason.I am asking if you can look at this and sign it if you agree. In France children have a right to see their grandparents and it’s in their interests to have the love of their wider family. Let’s get the topic discussed more openly:-
www.change.org/p/all-children-should-have-the-right-too-safe-and-loving-relationships-with-their-grandparents-over-2-4-million-children-are-denied-this-relationship-and-used-as-weapons-due-to-family-conflict-family-relationships?recruiter=105786440&utm_source=share_petition&utm_campaign=psf_combo_share_initial&utm_medium=whatsapp&utm_content=washarecopy_31748232_en-GB%3A7&recruited_by_id=bf640eb0-ec19-11e3-9f38-a7a4ba319ac7&fbclid=IwAR1JyS31ouBPgOEoIjBGVd9m3UY5W0OVsc-q7OjlaC3DOVcXcPHGS3UMzM8

Thank you and I hope reconciliation comes the way of anyone suffering like me .

There was a long thread on here, about this, a little while ago:

www.gransnet.com/forums/estrangement/1304666-Sign-for-grandchildren

Hope everyone is feeling more themselves today. The sun's shining here. So shouldn't get wet going to my exercise class. Smiles what sort of songs do you sing is it hymns or a mix of classical pieces? Not going to church I don't know what choirs sing.
I listen to classic FM as I like the mix of instrumental and vocal .

As soon as I decided I wanted to move I detached myself from my home. Decluttering was fun but exhausting. Letting go of things was very freeing. But it can be upsetting I thought I had gotten rid of all my husband's hospital things but hadn't. But pulled up my big girl pants and put it ask for recycling. I finally had to throw away my husband's waxed coat. He never wore anything scented but his coat smelt of him. So I keep it in a wardrobe and used to smell it to remind me. I know I am weird . Good job it was by itself as mould had started to grow had been a few years since I last looked at it. In the garage found a pair of his gardening shoes no idea why I kept them?.

Decluttering frees your mind as well as your home. I packed everything myself. Wrote on the boxes what was in and which room it was for plus numbered them.

What part of the country to live in was easy it was just looking in different parts. I picked the right bungalow and area. Like I have said before I now live my life to the full before my move I existed. Moving gave me a new start I got my identity back didn't realise I had lost me. It was a shock when I realised that. Both my children loved the fact I was living the life I should have been doing for years.

But it's turned out moving has cost me my son and grandson's but that's his choice not mine. I had no say in the matter. But if he ever did want me again he will find I am not the same mom he knew the same way he isn't the man I thought he was. But can't see that happening.

I have wobbles but with all your help I get over them . If life was easy it would be boring. Our life experiences make us stronger doesn't always feel like it but it does.

I have decided this year I am going to explore all the places I was going to but had to put on hold because of Covid. I don't mean the jungles of Borneo but all the places where I live. I have even ordered some walking boots from Hotter. Near me is a country park I want to explore. Good thing about living here is a free bus / local rail pass for over 60 men and women. So my journeys won't cost me anything.

I know some want to move but what plans have others made?

Take care of yourselves. ?

Hazydays I wouldn't sign anything like this. I know others will. But for me I would hate to force my son and daughter in law to let me see my 3 grandson's. As I know it would back fire. After my daughter in law vented her spleen about me on Reddit I would not give her any ammunition to attack me again.

My grandson's are to young and by now the 2 I know would have forgotten me by now. I have never seen their brother or even know his name or exact date of birth.

I have never forced anyone to do anything against their will I won't start now.

But I hope this thread and the previous support thread has been of some help to you. If you need us we are here all of us. So if you feel you want to join us please do . You will get what I badly needed when my son threw me away support, understanding ,advice and friendship. And knowing I wasn't alone was priceless.

That really made me laugh Whiff; "I don't mean the jungles of Borneo". I just got this mental image of you kitted out in your safari gear, cutting back the foliage as you marched with courage and determination through the under growth, just as you do through life.

We sing a mixture of traditional, choral and classical so it's very interesting, especially when none of us have sung a piece before. We sopranos had a lot of high notes so my voice was pretty tired by the time I got home.

We go back to our lodge in just over 3 weeks time for a fortnight, first trip back since November so I'm really looking forward to that. Planning to take our motor home down to Devon for 3 weeks in September too, so something else to look forward too.

Looking forward is what I need to do, putting the past few difficult months behind me which would have been so much harder without all of the lovely friends I've made here.

I got up this morning and could have cried for England! DH was already up and in his man cave sorting out his car stuff. This morning I have a horrible all alone feeling that I just cannot shake off. I am going to have a walk and try and think positively. But I do not have any friends in this immediate area. No one to go and have a coffee with or ladies who do lunch, or men for that matter - I am past caring! I am lucky though that I have some fantastic supportive friends who live in the North east (where I am from originally) who are only at the end of a phone call. My youngest son is calling here at the weekend on his way to see some friends and it will be great to see him then. But I have this awful bottomless emptiness this morning. I keep telling myself that it is ok to not feel ok. I dont feel ok today. hugs to you all.

Pixie.....it IS Ok, not to feel ok. So don't fight it. Allow yourself to feel sad, low, lonely and despondent. This too will pass.

"there is a time and season for all purposes under heaven".

Let it ride out, let nature take it course.

Then, when you feel stronger and ready, take steps to get out and make new friends and acquaintances.

In the meantime have you told your husband how low you feel. Can he help lift your spirits a little. Maybe just something as simple as going for a drive somewhere, maybe finding a nice cafe.

Is it possible that your husband feels the same and that he is using spending time in his man cave as a way of escaping his feelings, finding comfort and solace in his hobbies.

Sounds like you two need to talk. Maybe he disappears into the man cave because he doesn't want to add to your sorrow by unburdening himself. Maybe he thinks he's helping you by being "strong and silent".

I know this sounds naff and I dont mean to sound patronising but I do find it helps to practise gratitude. When I feel low and hard done by I sit down and write in my journal and make a list of all the things I have been grateful for that day.

Yesterday I had a terrible shock, although having said that I wasn't surprised. I have a friend who, like me, is also a widow and also semi estranged from her son and DIL. As if that isn't enough she is also battling breast cancer and has had the added stress of delays to her treatment because of the current difficulties in the NHS. She has now been admitted to a psychiatric unit because the stress just overwhelmed her.

Last night I wrote how grateful I was that I have "only" widowhood and semi estrangement to deal with and not serious life threatening health issues.

So far....??? my health is bearing up but it just goes to show doesn't it.......we know that stress causes havoc with our bodies. I think emotional stress is probably the most dangerous stress of all. I do have moments of mild anxiety and I have to work really hard to kick those feelings into the long grass.

Yes moving house can be stressful because in order to effect the move we have to step out of our comfort zone, especially if we are living solo and dont have a partner to help ease the burden,

I worked for over 30 years in estate agency and new build sales and I've seen first hand how stressful and messy moving house can be but I still maintain that moving isn't nearly so stressful as illness, death and estrangement,

Moving can be made a little less stressful with forward planning, getting well organised and yes, maybe throwing money at the problem by buying in help.

I am currently trying to plan ahead, by throughly decluttering and donating items to the charity shop before the house even goes on the market. Hopefully the more I can do now the easier it will be when the time comes. I will also be donating to the YMCA who will pick up larger unwanted items of furniture etc.

For the things that can't be donated I have decided that rather than mess about with endless tip runs I will simply hire a skip. Around £200. Yes the tip is free but lugging stuff in and out of the car only hurts my back. So the skip is worth every penny.

Sorry but I too won't be signing that petition. I could be wrong but I think going the legal route may cause more harm than good. It could cause suffering to the grandchildren who would find themselves stuck between a rock and a hard place..Who knows what devastating emotional distress it could cause them by making them the subject of an emotional tug of war.

The sad fact is we can't make people love us or want us in their lives. Yes it hurts when our adult children toss us aside, by jingo it cuts deep, and I am guessing it's a pain that never really goes away. Grief, pain and loss are part of the human condition, it gets us all in the end. No one goes through life Scot free from emotional pain, we just have to learn to live with it and work round it.

I am now fully resigned and accepting of my situation, coming to terms with the reality. I can't see the point of wishing and hoping that things were different. Wishing and hoping never achieved anything. Maybe one day my son will want me in his life , but I'm not putting my life on hold waiting for that day.

I am 70 with more road behind me than what lies ahead. I am not going to waste what time I have left, waiting for my son to have a change of heart.

I am not going to waste my life by wishing for the moon on a stick. ?

It is OK not to feel OK PP that feeling of "bottomless emptiness" is awful as you say, but it will pass.

Try to focus on the weekend when you'll be seeing your son.

I'm sending you my love and a BIG (((hug))), I only wish I could do more x

Just seen your post DSL, so sorry to hear about your friend. I hope that she gets the help she needs.

It's good when we can count our blessings but on those days when it feels as everything's falling apart, it's so hard to do.

I got in a panic yesterday. Mr. S. 'phoned me to say he was on his way home, a journey of about 40 minutes, and when an hour had gone by I started to panic, wondering where on earth he'd got too.

He'd popped into see someone and hadn't thought to let me know. With our DS so far away in Aus. we feel that all we have is one another. We have family and friends but our estrangement has made us very heavily dependant on one another, which isn't necessarily a good thing.

Sometimes the fear of losing him is overwhelming. I told him off when he got back for not letting me know.

We hired a skip when we were moving, it's much easier and worth the cost, just fill it up and let them take it away. If only there was something we could put all of our pain in, our sense of loss, and have that taken away too.

Thank you DSL and Smileless. I agree with all you say but I have tried to talk to DH in the past and it did no good. He gets wrapped up in his car stuff, people and clubs which he says he loves. We have had rides out in the past, talked and meals etc which have been good short term. Maybe we should do it more often. I used to have a large network of friends and cousins etc in the North East when I lived there but I have been in the East Midlands since 1988. Since then I have worked either part time or full time and after retiring that is when I have come to realise - I don’t have any actual good friends around here. I used to be so busy going out to work. Also my youngest son went to University and then moved over 100 miles away to live and work. Empty nest was a massive thing for me when he went. I sometimes get up lately and cry because I cannot see what use I am in life! I know it is horrible and sorry to say these things but that is how my head aches lately.

Many of us seem to be a bit "down " today. Me too. Inspired by all of you who are de cluttering l decided l must remove my late husband's clothes from a wardrobe, it is just over a year now so about time. I took them to a charity shop he would have approved of. But after handing over the bags, l went outside and cried. I had not expected that l would do that.
Due to a family matter that has arisen l have had to explain to a relative that l did not wish to speak to ES about it. So difficult to try and explain why. Don't think l did it very well.

It's tough isn't it.

I too am feeling very much in the doldrums at the moment. I have a mountain of things I could be doing, some of them actually quite nice things, but I just can't seem to summon up any enthusiasm for anything.

I had intended to start reupholstering my dining chairs but just can't face it. It doesn't look very inviting outside but I think I'll wrap up warm and go for a walk.

See if I can blow the cobwebs away. ?

Bad day for some of you today. It’s just a part of this living hell we’re in I think. Some days I’m fine can deal with life’s difficulties, other days I’m a mess ….
I usually eat my way out of it but I’m trying hard to stop that very bad habit. What will I turn to next I ask myself ……
Hope tomorrow’s a better day for you all.. ?

What we need is a group hug.

You never need to apologise for what you post here PP, this is what this thread and all the support threads have been for. We can share with one another those things that we couldn't share with anyone else, even our nearest and dearest.

That must have been very hard Hilltop, letting go of your DH's clothes so well done for having done so. Maybe you shouldn't feel that you have to explain about not wanting to speak to your ES, especially if you don't want too. That's all you need to say if you're not comfortable saying any more.

Oh me too DSL, it must be the time of year with so many of us feeling the same way.

We have a church meeting tonight I could well do without, having already had one this afternoon. Hey ho, tomorrow is another day and if there's one thing we can all count on it's that we'll all be here for one another x.

We're hoping to be ready to put the house on the market in a month, two at the most allsorts. We have some repairs to do and we couldn't get anyone to even come out and give us a price. So we've rolled our sleeves up and been having a go at pointing and plastering as well as a few more basic touch up jobs. We've already rebuilt a cupboard that was gutted when we had a boiler removed and a new one fitted in a new spot. It was a slow start with a steep learning curve but we think we've got the knack enough to plod on steadily now.

I'm sure singing is good for the soul as well as the lungs smiles so being in a choir sounds wonderful.

I'm sorry you are feeling so low right now PP. These things can feel like they will never pass, but in time they do. Thinking of you in the meantime. x

I'm sorry about your friend DSL. I think the strain has started to tell on more people than ever after the couple of years we've all had. Add in the extra strains that visit some and it can be intolerable.

I know what you mean about the fear of losing your husband smiles. It's something I seem to fear more and more as time goes by.

That's a big task to tackle Hilltop. I'm sure the tears were a needed part of saying goodbye to his things.

I eat when I'm stressed or unhappy GS and it's doing my body no good. It really is something I need to tackle.

I'm up for that group hug smiles.

We managed a little walk in the park today then went for more DIY supplies. Tired but feel like the day was well spent.

Hilltop it was 8 months after my husband died before I could sort out his clothes but couldn't do it alone. I did it with my daughter. You are braver than I was. She took them to our local hospice shop. I couldn't do it. My dad made mom promise to get rid of his things a week after he died. So we did it together I can still remember holding her while she cried over parting with his flat cap. I did say she could keep but said no he said everything. While mom was alive she asked me to take most of her things to a charity as she wouldn't wear them and lot were to big for her.

I hated ironing but after my husband died I really missed ironing his shirts. He wasn't a tee shirt man. So usually had at least 7 shirts a week.

As other widows here know grieving for the other half of you never stops you just learn to cope better. Well that's my experience.

All here never fight if you need a cry,scream,shout or hit a pillow . I spent years trying to hold my feelings in and the only person I hurt was me. I found if I fought crying when I finally couldn't keep it in anymore it was far worse and sobbed my heart out until I was exhausted. Just because we are parents doesn't mean we have to be brave . I think it is easier for a woman to let go and cry . Men especially those who have husband's are of the generation that still have the idea they have to be brave and be the head of the household and it's their duty to protect their loved ones. They can't show any weakness. I know my husband was like that . Before he got cancer he had only cried twice once when his friend died aged 19 and when his dad died. His dad didn't deserve his tears. It wasn't having cancer that broke him but knowing he would leave us to soon . Our children don't know fully what he went through even when he was dieing he was still protecting them.

So while women can let go of their feelings and cry men would rather work themselves into ground doing everything and anything just so they won't show their feelings. I know there is nothing more heart breaking than holding your husband in the night while he cried so our children wouldn't know how he felt.

As been said before estrangement is a living breavenment. We grieve for our children and grandchildren but they are alive. The love for my son and grandson's hasn't died yet and I hope it never does. But I am a realist and know my love is for the son I knew not the son who wrote that email and letter. I don't know that son. That son was cruel and cowardly. Two words I would never have associated with the son I knew.

Why do our estranged children think they are so perfect and they know all the answers and are raising their children perfectly. I always told my daughter and son babies don't come with a manual. You have to just do the best you can and the main thing children need is love and attention. We brought ours up with the values I was. As my in laws where self centred and never loved my husband. They looked after him but it wasn't until we started courting that he found the family he always wanted and needed. It's funny my dad didn't know what a real family was until he met my mom. Just realised we both fell in love with men that didn't have a real family before being with us.

Being parents is the hardest job in the world and being estranged parents harder still. I will never understand why my son wrote the things he did as things he accused me of never happened and he doesn't know how I reacted to some things that happened to them and what I did to try and help. But what he has done by saying zero contact has made it easier for me I don't think he thought I would abide by it. But I have my limits and know I couldn't cope with the abuse some have suffered and the uncertainty of knowing whether or not the estrangement permanent or not.

Knowing some have reconnected with their estranged children and or grandchildren gives me a glimmer of hope . But as time goes by that will fade. I am not the same woman I was in 2020. Estrangement has changed me . It hasn't broken me in fact think I am stronger and will no longer put up with the behaviour I did before . I have extra health problems but am coping with them .

The figures are 1 in 5 adults in this country are going through estrangement from one or more family members. How many people I wonder do we pass on the street are suffering in silence . Estrangement has long been a hidden problem. Because of all of you I can talk freely about it to other people . And am surprised how many people it's happened to. But it's only because of Smiles and the rest of you I am as I am now. Without the support I got from the other support thread I dread to think what I would be like.

Yes I have big wobbles when I am a sodden mess. But I don't fight it . But my main wobbles are over missing my husband . I am lonely but only for him. I am not lonely because I live alone. In fact I like living on my own. But then again I was widowed 18 years ago and lived on my own for 16 years. Just had mom living with me the last 18 months of her life. But my mom's dementia mean I was still on my own in away.

As per usual rambled on . Hope everyone is feeling bit happier today and more like yourself. But it takes time so give yourself that time. ?

Lovely post Whiff......it has helped calm me down a bit. So thank you.

Most mornings, as soon as I open my eyes my first thoughts are of my son. Most mornings I feel a low grade anxiety. I can usually shake it off during the day but it then often reappears in the evening. This morning I also awoke feeling angry.

If truth be told Whiff I am seriously beginning to think it would be better for me to be fully estranged and not living in this limbo. It's been six weeks again......which means at some point soon they will be crawling out of the woodwork. This seems to be the pattern.

1 in 5 parents are estranged you say, that is high. Then add to that people like me - not fully estranged but not enjoying "normal" healthy family relationships, struggling to keep them afloat. Parents who are constantly walking on eggshells and having to appease their adult children, just to try and maintain an uneasy peace and have some kind of relationship.

I have to ask myself is it really worth it........maybe it's time I called it quits. DIL is never going to change and like you Whiff I too feel that my son is no longer the man I knew or thought I knew.

When they do visit DILp usually manages to sabotage the:visit. She ruined Christmas Day. I now find their visits very stressful, they leave me feeling drained and exhausted. Sad to say I often feel relieved when they leave.

I never dreamt I would ever find myself in a situation like this......?.

DerbyshireLass none of us here thought this would happen to us. But we have eachother to talk about how we feel. Others that understand how we feel and support,give advice and more importantly friendship. So I for one don't feel alone. Looking back over the years I had heard people say they didn't see their children or brothers and sisters didn't see eachother. And couldn't understand why that would happen to families. How naive I was. I was brought up with family being everything. My parents told my brother and me you will always have family to count on. And I believed them. I am glad they are long gone before my son did this as it would have broken them.

Estrangement has been to long in the shadows. At least here is in the open thanks to Smiles . I now know 7 families that are estranged. When you look at a row of houses how many are going through what we are? It's a sobering thought.

I do find singing good for the soul as well as the lungs hugshelp and am so glad I joined the choir. The fear of losing Mr. S. has certainly intensified over the years, beginning with our estrangement and getting worse as we get older.

I don't dwell on it but it's the first thing I think about if he's late, so today when he 'phoned to say he was setting off for home, I told him not to stop off any where on the way.

Give this some thought and some time DSL. I suggested to you recently, perhaps writing to your son about how these extended periods of no contact are affecting you.

Estrangement is not what you want and you can tell him so, but this isn't what you want either, and more importantly what you can live with.

Is this the same as calling it quits? Possibly, but that depends on how he takes it and if estrangement is what he really wants, then maybe it would suit him to see it that way.

I hope with all my heart that this isn't what he wants but maybe he needs to give some serious thought to what that is, and understand that if his and his wife's behaviour doesn't drastically improve, it may be what he ends up with, whether he wants it or not.

I have a poem on my fridge, which has been there for years and one I read from time to time. I've shared it before on more than one occasion, over the years on the support threads and reading your post has prompted me to do so again.

I hope it can help you DSL, the way it has always, and continues to help me x

The Journey by Mary Oliver

One day you finally knew what you had to do, and began,
though the voices around you kept shouting their bad advice
though the whole house began to tremble
and you felt the old tug at your ankles
"Mend my life!" each voice cried.
But you didn't stop.

You knew what you had to do,
though the wind pried with its stiff fingers
at the very foundations,
though their melancholy was terrible.

It was already late enough, and a wild night,
and the road full of fallen branches and stones.
But little by little, as you left their voices behind,
the stars began to burn through the sheets of clouds,
and there was a new voice which you slowly recognised as your own,
that kept you company as you strode deeper and deeper into the world,
determined to do the only thing you could do
determined to save the only life you could save.